Glueing wood to glass - alternatives to silicone and epoxy? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 05-30-2019, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Glueing wood to glass - alternatives to silicone and epoxy?

I’m working on a project where I need to adhere a drinking glass to wood.

The lip of the glass is only 1/8” so there’s not a lot of surface area.

West Systems makes an Epoxy call G-Flex which they say is good for this purpose, but in my past experience, epoxy has separated from the glass.

I just tried a test using silicone. It held pretty well, but eventually separated cleanly from the wood.

Just in case I’m not making this challenging enough for you guys, the glueing surface on the wood is end grain.

Any ideas?
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post #2 of 25 Old 05-30-2019, 08:43 AM
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E-6000 is like silicone adhesive on steroids. It has a much stronger grip but retains the same flexibility. You can find it at hobby stores, on line and at Lowes.

It is a styrene based adhesive.
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post #3 of 25 Old 05-30-2019, 09:22 AM
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Perhaps roughen the edge of the glass by sliding it across suitable sand paper. I would use wet and dry myself.
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post #4 of 25 Old 05-30-2019, 10:33 AM
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Assuming it no longer needs to be watertight could you put the glass on with screws or bolts?

Epoxy would adhere to glass if you would roughen it with a sandblaster. Mask off the area of the glass to be blasted with duct tape and if you are careful the rest of the glass wouldn't get sandblasted. I had problems with the rear view mirror on a jeep falling off so I sandblasted the windshield and the mirror has been there for 20 years now. I used PC7 epoxy on it. It's nearly black in color though.
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post #5 of 25 Old 05-30-2019, 12:05 PM
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If color don't matter, use J-B Weld. Our mirror in our car kept falling off no matter what I used, I tried J-B Weld and it stayed up for over three years and still was holding when a tractor trailer hit my wife and totaled the car last month, last I saw of it, it was still there. J-B Weld is harder than Superman's knee caps.

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post #6 of 25 Old 05-30-2019, 02:15 PM
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route out the wood, providing more glue surface area and inherent stability.
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post #7 of 25 Old 05-30-2019, 06:20 PM
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Use a hole saw ..... IF

If the diameter is close to a standard hole saw, make a shallow cut which will give more holding power to which ever you choose for the adhesive.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #8 of 25 Old 05-30-2019, 11:01 PM
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You need to find an adhesive that will bond to both, simply adding more surface area will not solve your problem, check out the silicone solutions as has been suggested in the second post.

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post #9 of 25 Old 05-31-2019, 02:29 AM
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A shallow recess adds mechanical strength ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by unburled View Post
route out the wood, providing more glue surface area and inherent stability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
If the diameter is close to a standard hole saw, make a shallow cut which will give more holding power to which ever you choose for the adhesive.

In addition to providing more surface area, a shallow recess will resist any movement laterally and add support. The adhesive should be appropriate for bonding the two dissimiliar materials. Packard's E-6000 suggestion seems to be a good one.
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #10 of 25 Old 05-31-2019, 06:33 AM Thread Starter
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The project Iím working on is a salt mill with a glass center section. Because one of the glued sections will be in contact with the salt, Iím using food-safe silicone, so Iím a bit limited in selection.

I have tried a test with both. It took some effort, but the silicone separated from the wood and the Epoxy separated from the glass.

Iíve got a new Epoxy test underway where Iíve roughened the glass and Iím about to try a silicone test after roughening the wood as soon as I figure out how to do that.
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post #11 of 25 Old 05-31-2019, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickstep View Post
The project Iím working on is a salt mill with a glass center section. Because one of the glued sections will be in contact with the salt, Iím using food-safe silicone, so Iím a bit limited in selection.

I have tried a test with both. It took some effort, but the silicone separated from the wood and the Epoxy separated from the glass.

Iíve got a new Epoxy test underway where Iíve roughened the glass and Iím about to try a silicone test after roughening the wood as soon as I figure out how to do that.
E6000 is not food safe. Here is a list of food safe adhesives (pure silicone and epoxy show up, but epoxy seems the stronger option):

https://www.masterbond.com/tds/ep30ht

https://www.google.com/search?ei=NiD...67.E7GV4W8exZo
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post #12 of 25 Old 05-31-2019, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickstep View Post
West Systems makes an Epoxy call G-Flex which they say is good for this purpose, but in my past experience, epoxy has separated from the glass.
I'd use epoxy.

I've seen where bone gelatine got onto glass and people tried to scrape it off, and it adhered so well that scraping off the bits of gelatine actually ripped out pits of glass from the window. I suspect epoxy would adhere just as well, if not better.

Sounds to me like you didn't degrease it well enough. Sanding the glass before degreasing (and wetting out with unthickened epoxy) would be the best method, in my view. I would also wet out the end grain wood with unthickened epoxy until it soaked up no more, then, while the epoxy was still "green" (able to dent with fingernail), join the two items using epoxy thickened with cabosil (fumed silica) or (preferably) West System filler #404 if I had it.

If it was to be used outdoors, I would also add something to the filler to block UV ... graphite, or aluminum powder or something like that.

Last edited by 1618; 05-31-2019 at 10:25 AM.
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post #13 of 25 Old 05-31-2019, 10:39 AM
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I responded to your post in this thread:

Thread:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/f...licone-212727/
Post:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/f...7/#post2056433

I suggested ASI #502 Silicone from American Sealants, Inc.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0063U2RWU

Does it fail to meet your requirements?
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post #14 of 25 Old 05-31-2019, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
I responded to your post in this thread:

Thread:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/f...licone-212727/
Post:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/f...7/#post2056433

I suggested ASI #502 Silicone from American Sealants, Inc.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0063U2RWU

Does it fail to meet your requirements?
I am using RTV Silicone. It sticks to the glass like nobody's business, but it separated from the wood with moderate force. I have a test going now where I roughed up the wood, so there's be some "tooth" for the silicone to grab.

I'm going to let it go a full 24 hours, so I won't be able to update until tomorrow.
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post #15 of 25 Old 05-31-2019, 02:29 PM
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Seal the wood first!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickstep View Post
I am using RTV Silicone. It sticks to the glass like nobody's business, but it separated from the wood with moderate force. I have a test going now where I roughed up the wood, so there's be some "tooth" for the silicone to grab.

I'm going to let it go a full 24 hours, so I won't be able to update until tomorrow.

As you discovered, the silicone will adhere to a non-porous surface much better than not. Any clear sealant like shellac or fast dry enamel should help the silicone to adhere better.
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #16 of 25 Old 05-31-2019, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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As you discovered, the silicone will adhere to a non-porous surface much better than not. Any clear sealant like shellac or fast dry enamel should help the silicone to adhere better.
Dang! This sounds like the ticket! I can seal the end grain with epoxy, then use the silicone to provide a flexible bond.
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post #17 of 25 Old 06-01-2019, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Another reason to always test on scrap

So I did a test where I coated the end grain with Epoxy and then made a joint using silicone. After curing, the silicone peeled right off! It cam off even easier than it did on the bare wood. Amazing!
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post #18 of 25 Old 06-02-2019, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
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So I did a test where I coated the end grain with Epoxy and then made a joint using silicone. After curing, the silicone peeled right off! It cam off even easier than it did on the bare wood. Amazing!
Did you de-blush the hardened epoxy before applying the silicone? You need to remove the amine blush to apply more epoxy or paint or pretty much anything else, if you want it to adhere. I sand or use Scotchbrite with water, then rinse with more water, then let dry.
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post #19 of 25 Old 06-03-2019, 08:41 AM
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Whenever faced with a bonding situation like this, I always go to www.thistothat.com for the suggested method.

In your case, wood moves with humidity changes and glass doesn't, so the glue needs to be flexible after it cures and if it isn't, the glass will break as the wood moves. To me, that rules out epoxy, but using epoxy as a grain sealer on the wood is a good idea. A silicone glue will provide needed joint flexibility, but won't bond tightly to glass unless the glass is completely clean including the removal of finger prints.

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post #20 of 25 Old 06-03-2019, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharleyL View Post
Whenever faced with a bonding situation like this, I always go to www.thistothat.com for the suggested method.

In your case, wood moves with humidity changes and glass doesn't, so the glue needs to be flexible after it cures and if it isn't, the glass will break as the wood moves. To me, that rules out epoxy, but using epoxy as a grain sealer on the wood is a good idea. A silicone glue will provide needed joint flexibility, but won't bond tightly to glass unless the glass is completely clean including the removal of finger prints.

Charley
On my test pieces, the silicone stuck to the glass extreeemly well. So much so that it was a real bear to get off to conduct a second experiment. I ended up using a different glass jar for the next test. But, the silicone didn't stick wood worth a darn. For the second test, I sealed the end grain with epoxy and tried gluing to it with the silicone. The silicone REALLY didn't stick to the epoxy. It peeled off easily.

My best success so far has been roughing the glass and using West Systems G-Flex epoxy. Just trying to twist or pull the jar wouldn't break the bond. When I hit the wood that the jar was glued to with a hammer, it did finally break off, but some glass broke free from the jar, so it would seem the bond was pretty good. West claims that G-Flex is flexible to handle the wood movement, but I'm a little skeptical.

I also have an experiment where I coated the endgrain with shellac and have a jar bonded to it. I'm giving it several days to fully cure before I try to break it apart.
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