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Are glued joints OK for engineered (LVL) lumber?
I'm building a door where the frame will be completely hidden by trim, so I thought I would try using LVL studs to eliminate warping. So I went down to my local lumber yard and bought some LVL studs.
They look like this: https://i.imgur.com/MzzeAZt.jpg
My plan is to use half-lap joints, which I know are very strong because of the large amount of long grain to long grain contact.
I'm a bit concerned about using lap joints (or m&t or any glued joint) with laminated lumber, though. First, both the surface and cut ends of this stuff feel very "plasticky". Probably because it's already saturated with glue. So, I'm worried I'd be gluing glue to glue, rather than gluing wood to wood as with normal lumber. Second, I can't find anyone who has used engineered lumber in this way, so I'm not sure if it's even a good idea.
Would appreciate any insights!
They look like this: https://i.imgur.com/MzzeAZt.jpg
My plan is to use half-lap joints, which I know are very strong because of the large amount of long grain to long grain contact.
I'm a bit concerned about using lap joints (or m&t or any glued joint) with laminated lumber, though. First, both the surface and cut ends of this stuff feel very "plasticky". Probably because it's already saturated with glue. So, I'm worried I'd be gluing glue to glue, rather than gluing wood to wood as with normal lumber. Second, I can't find anyone who has used engineered lumber in this way, so I'm not sure if it's even a good idea.
Would appreciate any insights!
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Senior Member
'Are you using these LVL studs in the frame around the door vs normal wood (as grown) studs? If so why not just fasten them the way you would fasten any other stud?
If you are using these to make the actual door then I have no idea.
George
If you are using these to make the actual door then I have no idea.
George
Senior Member
The LVL studs will glue fine and your idea for the half lap joint is good. The problem you will have is over the long haul the hinges and locksets won't hold very good. You could laminate a strip of solid wood on the outside edges of the door for that. When a solid core door is made they more or less cut out a thick sheet of particle board and band the edges with pine and then veneer over it.
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Senior Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul
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The LVL studs will glue fine and your idea for the half lap joint is good. The problem you will have is over the long haul the hinges and locksets won't hold very good. You could laminate a strip of solid wood on the outside edges of the door for that. When a solid core door is made they more or less cut out a thick sheet of particle board and band the edges with pine and then veneer over it.
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johnep
Compound doors becoming standard in UK. We have oak doors which look like solid oak. Also have "Engineered Oak" flooring. Basically 3mm Oak veneer on pine wood base.
Floor looks very good.
johnep
Floor looks very good.
johnep
Senior Member
Is there a reason you wouldn't make the joins mortise and tenon?
Junior Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul
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The LVL studs will glue fine and your idea for the half lap joint is good. The problem you will have is over the long haul the hinges and locksets won't hold very good. You could laminate a strip of solid wood on the outside edges of the door for that. When a solid core door is made they more or less cut out a thick sheet of particle board and band the edges with pine and then veneer over it.
The first project I used LVL studs for was a set of carriage doors I built following these FWW plans: https://image.prntscr.com/image/PaI4...CXHMc-hTAg.png
Here are my doors- https://photos.app.goo.gl/FPVFAOc2fMnKiqxM2
They didn't mention any concerns about the holding power of screws in LVL.
It's good to hear that glue joints should work. I'm going to try calling the manufacturer to see if they can help.
Senior Member
Very nice looking doors. With the glue I would still use some 3” or 3 1/4” screws.
Because these doors will be exterior and they’re heavy, the screwed frame will just add to the overall support and be stronger than nails or glue only.
Because these doors will be exterior and they’re heavy, the screwed frame will just add to the overall support and be stronger than nails or glue only.
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
Senior Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by polar8
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That's concerning. Why is it that screws wouldn't hold well in LVL studs? My plan was to use a 3" screw in each of the 4 holes for the hinges, and I thought that would be plenty strong.
The first project I used LVL studs for was a set of carriage doors I built following these FWW plans: https://image.prntscr.com/image/PaI4...CXHMc-hTAg.png
Here are my doors- https://photos.app.goo.gl/FPVFAOc2fMnKiqxM2
They didn't mention any concerns about the holding power of screws in LVL.
It's good to hear that glue joints should work. I'm going to try calling the manufacturer to see if they can help.
The first project I used LVL studs for was a set of carriage doors I built following these FWW plans: https://image.prntscr.com/image/PaI4...CXHMc-hTAg.png
Here are my doors- https://photos.app.goo.gl/FPVFAOc2fMnKiqxM2
They didn't mention any concerns about the holding power of screws in LVL.
It's good to hear that glue joints should work. I'm going to try calling the manufacturer to see if they can help.
LVL is in other words plywood and the edges of plywood doesn't have a lot of holding strength for screws. Then a door has a great deal of stress on it between the action of opening and closing it coupled with the weight. Even a solid wood door has issues with it over time with the screws coming out.
Last edited by Steve Neul; 10-20-2017 at 07:04 PM.
Senior Member
I thought the reason that plywood doesn't hold screws well is because the plies are alternating end grain and edge grain. I thought that, in LVL, the plies are all aligned with their grainparallel to the length of the beam. Is that not correct?
Senior Member
I see that these are outside doors. Did you use LVL that was rated for use such as this? My understanding is that not all LVL is rated for exterior use.
George
George
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