Are glued joints OK for engineered (LVL) lumber? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 Old 10-20-2017, 03:33 AM Thread Starter
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Are glued joints OK for engineered (LVL) lumber?

I'm building a door where the frame will be completely hidden by trim, so I thought I would try using LVL studs to eliminate warping. So I went down to my local lumber yard and bought some LVL studs.

They look like this: https://i.imgur.com/MzzeAZt.jpg

My plan is to use half-lap joints, which I know are very strong because of the large amount of long grain to long grain contact.

I'm a bit concerned about using lap joints (or m&t or any glued joint) with laminated lumber, though. First, both the surface and cut ends of this stuff feel very "plasticky". Probably because it's already saturated with glue. So, I'm worried I'd be gluing glue to glue, rather than gluing wood to wood as with normal lumber. Second, I can't find anyone who has used engineered lumber in this way, so I'm not sure if it's even a good idea.

Would appreciate any insights!
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post #2 of 11 Old 10-20-2017, 08:26 AM
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'Are you using these LVL studs in the frame around the door vs normal wood (as grown) studs? If so why not just fasten them the way you would fasten any other stud?

If you are using these to make the actual door then I have no idea.

George
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post #3 of 11 Old 10-20-2017, 08:30 AM
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The LVL studs will glue fine and your idea for the half lap joint is good. The problem you will have is over the long haul the hinges and locksets won't hold very good. You could laminate a strip of solid wood on the outside edges of the door for that. When a solid core door is made they more or less cut out a thick sheet of particle board and band the edges with pine and then veneer over it.
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post #4 of 11 Old 10-20-2017, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
The LVL studs will glue fine and your idea for the half lap joint is good. The problem you will have is over the long haul the hinges and locksets won't hold very good. You could laminate a strip of solid wood on the outside edges of the door for that. When a solid core door is made they more or less cut out a thick sheet of particle board and band the edges with pine and then veneer over it.
Glue on glue is not a problem. If the surfaces are dirty just clean them and add glue, clam or screw. Tom

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post #5 of 11 Old 10-20-2017, 09:35 AM
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Compound doors becoming standard in UK. We have oak doors which look like solid oak. Also have "Engineered Oak" flooring. Basically 3mm Oak veneer on pine wood base.
Floor looks very good.
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post #6 of 11 Old 10-20-2017, 12:27 PM
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Is there a reason you wouldn't make the joins mortise and tenon?
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post #7 of 11 Old 10-20-2017, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
The LVL studs will glue fine and your idea for the half lap joint is good. The problem you will have is over the long haul the hinges and locksets won't hold very good. You could laminate a strip of solid wood on the outside edges of the door for that. When a solid core door is made they more or less cut out a thick sheet of particle board and band the edges with pine and then veneer over it.
That's concerning. Why is it that screws wouldn't hold well in LVL studs? My plan was to use a 3" screw in each of the 4 holes for the hinges, and I thought that would be plenty strong.

The first project I used LVL studs for was a set of carriage doors I built following these FWW plans: https://image.prntscr.com/image/PaI4...CXHMc-hTAg.png

Here are my doors- https://photos.app.goo.gl/FPVFAOc2fMnKiqxM2

They didn't mention any concerns about the holding power of screws in LVL.

It's good to hear that glue joints should work. I'm going to try calling the manufacturer to see if they can help.
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post #8 of 11 Old 10-20-2017, 01:42 PM
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Very nice looking doors. With the glue I would still use some 3” or 3 1/4” screws.
Because these doors will be exterior and they’re heavy, the screwed frame will just add to the overall support and be stronger than nails or glue only.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #9 of 11 Old 10-20-2017, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polar8 View Post
That's concerning. Why is it that screws wouldn't hold well in LVL studs? My plan was to use a 3" screw in each of the 4 holes for the hinges, and I thought that would be plenty strong.

The first project I used LVL studs for was a set of carriage doors I built following these FWW plans: https://image.prntscr.com/image/PaI4...CXHMc-hTAg.png

Here are my doors- https://photos.app.goo.gl/FPVFAOc2fMnKiqxM2

They didn't mention any concerns about the holding power of screws in LVL.

It's good to hear that glue joints should work. I'm going to try calling the manufacturer to see if they can help.
If you look at the plans you built the door from you eliminated the solid piece of wood on the sides like I suggested. The solid wood is just an industry standard for that type door.

LVL is in other words plywood and the edges of plywood doesn't have a lot of holding strength for screws. Then a door has a great deal of stress on it between the action of opening and closing it coupled with the weight. Even a solid wood door has issues with it over time with the screws coming out.

Last edited by Steve Neul; 10-20-2017 at 07:04 PM.
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post #10 of 11 Old 10-21-2017, 09:13 AM
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I thought the reason that plywood doesn't hold screws well is because the plies are alternating end grain and edge grain. I thought that, in LVL, the plies are all aligned with their grainparallel to the length of the beam. Is that not correct?
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post #11 of 11 Old 10-21-2017, 12:11 PM
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I see that these are outside doors. Did you use LVL that was rated for use such as this? My understanding is that not all LVL is rated for exterior use.

George
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