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post #1 of 20 Old 12-21-2013, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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Frame clamp

Haven't been on in a while but need some quick advice. I've waited until the last minute to build some Christmas presents and working on a shadow box for my brother who is a high school wrestler for all his medals and some other stuff. Want to make a plaque the shape of Wisconsin and router out the high school logo on it but not sure if that will happen before Christmas or after.

Anyway, I made a box with oak sides and just some press board for the back. The back will be covered with cork board and then felt. The frame that will be the door is made out of oak also that I ran through the router table to make some edge profiles and also a groove for the plexiglass to sit in. I need to glue these up to make a frame, like a picture frame.

First, will just glue in the miters be strong enough or do I need something else to hold it together? Not sure what else I can use here.

Second, I need a good frame clamp. I've been meaning to get one for a while but haven't. There seem to be a few different styles and from some searching on here the threaded rod style seems to get good reviews. The box stores don't have this style from what I see online so if this is the best kind I'm hoping the local woodcraft has it in stock since I don't have time to order one anymore.

Here's some pictures and thanks for any advice!

Frame clamp-img_20131221_191410_247.jpg

Frame clamp-img_20131221_191428_572.jpg

Frame clamp-img_20131221_191447_546.jpg

Thanks for your help
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post #2 of 20 Old 12-21-2013, 10:18 PM
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As for a frame clamp. Something this small can be clamped just using masking tape. I just tape the outside of the miter and close it up. After all the corners are together I may add some in other places. I've also used red stick tape. If you need a clamp I would check the joint.

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post #3 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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Well my joints aren't perfect but they are pretty close for using a miter saw. I really need to build a table saw sled to cut miters more accurately but no time for that before Christmas! With the profile on the outer edge there isn't much to tape to so thought those metal clamps with threaded rod would work better then tape.

I ran to woodcraft tonight to see if they had one in stock but they closed at 5. They are open from 11-4 tomorrow so will see if I can get out there and check out what they have. They usually are pretty helpful guys out there also. We have a blizzard coming tonight and into the morning that is supposed to dump up to 10" of snow on us so that might put a kink in my plan of getting out there.

Will gluing the joint be strong enough by itself or is there some sort of fastener I can put in there? I'm not sure what but think since this is going to be a door of sorts it might need some more support?

Thanks for your help
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post #4 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 01:41 AM
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You have already shaped your edges, so its too late to add splines.

I agree with Al. This isn't a big box, its just the frame. Blue tape will hold it just fine. If you're worried, glue it up, and use some nails driven into a piece of plywood to hold the corners and then set the frame into that nest. If you are somewhat of a rube goldburgh, you can use your belt for a clamp. Just tie a rope around your waist and tighten the frame in your belt.

We make a lot of noise about leaving things in clamps over night, but if your shop has heat, all something this small really needs is an hour or two and the clamps can be removed. Just don't put any stress on it for at least 12 hours.

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Last edited by johnnie52; 12-22-2013 at 01:59 AM.
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post #5 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 07:31 AM
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If you can make a quick jig to hold the pieces while running through the table saw, you could make an ⅛" saw kerf, as a spline cut. If you reference the pieces the same...like having the bottoms against the fence for all the cuts, the spline kerfs will all line up.

You could use ⅛" tempered Masonite (hardboard) cut as splines. You will see a small part of the spline as it will be a through spline, but with glue, it will be a very strong corner. When I've done them it looks sort of custom. You might like it.

The next time you make a frame consider a half lap miter. A very strong corner.





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post #6 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 08:08 AM
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+1 with cabinetman, the spline makes a corner very strong and pretty simple to do. Here is a jig I made to cut splines in mitered corners after they are glued up. Hope this helps. Nice looking profile you have routed there too.

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post #7 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adot45 View Post
+1 with cabinetman, the spline makes a corner very strong and pretty simple to do. Here is a jig I made to cut splines in mitered corners after they are glued up. Hope this helps. Nice looking profile you have routed there too.

That would be good for corners that are already glued up, giving the "keyed" look. For corners that aren't glued yet, this one would work well.







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post #8 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adot45
+1 with cabinetman, the spline makes a corner very strong and pretty simple to do. Here is a jig I made to cut splines in mitered corners after they are glued up. Hope this helps. Nice looking profile you have routed there too.
+that and you don't need the clamps.

But I would make the splines out of the same wood. Just run the grain the strong way. Contrasting wood is mostly loved by the maker and can draw attention away from the piece your building.

Al

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post #9 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 07:51 PM
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Someone please educate me.

I totally agree the the best method for adding strength to any mitered corner is to use splines. I also agree with using either method suggested as both produce good results and look great when done right.

However;

He has already shaped his edges leaving what looks like less than 1/4" of straight edge. How would he manage to use either spline method that would not end up needing the splines to be shaped to match his edge profile after the glue dries?

Personally I think his mitered frame will prove to be strong enough once it is attached to the box part of his shadow box. But that's just me talking.

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Last edited by johnnie52; 12-22-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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post #10 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnie52 View Post
He has already shaped his edges leaving what looks like less than 1/4" of straight edge. How would he manage to use either spline method that would not end up needing the splines to be shaped to match his edge profile after the glue dries?
The splines can be pre-shaped which would minimize the amount of sanding. A sharp chisel can pare the spline to get close, and then sanded to fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnie52 View Post
Personally I think his mitered frame will prove to be strong enough once it is attached to the box part of his shadow box. But that's just me talking.
It would be if attached to the box. But, it will be a door, and the corners would benefit from strengthening.






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post #11 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
The splines can be pre-shaped which would minimize the amount of sanding. A sharp chisel can pare the spline to get close, and then sanded to fit.
That's what I thought. The splines will need to be shaped to match.


Quote:
It would be if attached to the box. But, it will be a door, and the corners would benefit from strengthening.






.
I missed the part about the frame becoming the door. Thanks Cabinetman.

If Woodworking is so much fun why isn't it called WoodFUNNING?

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post #12 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 08:55 PM
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Your thread states you need quick advise and all you really need to glue those frames is Quick Grip clamps. Much quicker and more controllable than belts and corner clamps. Size the joint in the gluing process for maximum joint strength. Google " size a glue joint "
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post #13 of 20 Old 12-22-2013, 10:41 PM
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90 degree brackets

http://www.amazon.com/Bench-Dog-Tools-10-031-Clamp-It/dp/B00421AXQ4/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1387766349&sr=8-7&keywords=90+degree+clamp


Make these out of plywood to square your corners and clamp them.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 20 Old 12-23-2013, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the great suggestions everyone.

Woodcraft didn't have one of those clamps in stock so that idea is out. They also said end grain to end grain won't be that strong of a joint. Looks like I kind of messed up by doing the profiles first.

I've wanted to do splines for a while now but time is running out and I don't want to make a learning mistake on this project! The trim turned out really nice and my luck I would make a mistake and have to start all over. So I think splines are out.

I did pick up some of these clamping "blocks", http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/208...ng-Blocks.aspx. I didn't think they would really work here since the profiles are already cut but they did look handy so I picked them up!

I also have some of these corner clamps I bought a while ago, http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...ner-Clamp.aspx. I don't think they are the best for what I want to do but I think I'm going to use them.

I picked up some corrugated nails from woodcraft also. Didn't really want to use them but they should provide more strength then just a glued end grain joint. I'm hoping between them and the glue it will hold up. If not I guess I will have to build a better frame down the road and just replace this one.

One last thing, would dowels work here? As in drill into each miter end grain and use a dowel? I have a nice dowel jog and would be easy to do. Just don't have much experience using dowels. Something like this,

Name:  picture frame with dowels.gif
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Thanks for your help
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post #15 of 20 Old 12-23-2013, 03:29 PM
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i have one of these and love it. for 30+years.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/200...iter-vise.aspx
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post #16 of 20 Old 12-23-2013, 04:09 PM
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Why not glue what was to be the door to the box, and make the rear removable. You won't have to worry about the edge glue being weak, and you could mount the cork on hardboard. It could go together like a photo in a picture frame.
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post #17 of 20 Old 12-23-2013, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
i have one of these and love it. for 30+years.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/200...iter-vise.aspx
That's a pretty nice clamp setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastien View Post
Why not glue what was to be the door to the box, and make the rear removable. You won't have to worry about the edge glue being weak, and you could mount the cork on hardboard. It could go together like a photo in a picture frame.
The back is already glued on and is going to have cork board on it so he can pin things to it as needed and change things. So really want the front to open so you don't have to take the whole thing off the wall just to add a medal or something.

I decided to try using dowels. I bought this dowel jig a year or so ago and haven't used it yet. There was a thread I started on here about dowel jigs but that project never happened. The dry fit worked pretty good. But when I went to glue up the first joint I put dowels in both sides of the miter joint! Tried to pull one out and it snapped off. So I cut them off flush and tried to assemble the joint with just one dowel and I couldn't get it tight. Used to much glue I guess. Then that dowel snapped off when I tried to pull apart the joint. Going to re drill the dowels and try again.

I was out plowing all last night and running on a couple hours sleep today so made a stupid mistake. I'll be sure to stay away from the power tools today!

Thanks for your help
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post #18 of 20 Old 12-23-2013, 05:49 PM
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Don't have anything to add on the mitered corners, but thought I'd share this resource I found for getting state outline printouts in many sizes that you can print on any printer for your Wisconsin plaque.
http://www.yourchildlearns.com/megam...-usa-maps.html
I used the 2x2 4 page one to make a few of these. I glued scrap Cedar shims to 1/4" plywood after tracing a reverse image of the state on the back. Cut it out with a jigsaw. That Door Peninsula is a bit tricky.


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post #19 of 20 Old 12-23-2013, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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Don't have anything to add on the mitered corners, but thought I'd share this resource I found for getting state outline printouts in many sizes that you can print on any printer for your Wisconsin plaque.
http://www.yourchildlearns.com/megam...-usa-maps.html
I used the 2x2 4 page one to make a few of these. I glued scrap Cedar shims to 1/4" plywood after tracing a reverse image of the state on the back. Cut it out with a jigsaw. That Door Peninsula is a bit tricky.


Attachment 85350
That's really neat, thanks for the link. I was trying to copy an image from a google search and then paste it into paint and try to enlarge it. It had worked before but for some reason wasn't cooperating that day! I've run out of time so the plaque won't happen before Christmas but I'll do it some time in the near future.

Thanks for your help
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post #20 of 20 Old 12-27-2013, 01:13 AM
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You could always run the frame thru the spline jig then stick your spines in let it dry overnight then run it back thru your router it would cut it right of perfect I have done it many times and never had any tear out or any issues for that matter but that's just my two cents
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