Forest Chopmaster 12" Blade - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 07-13-2020, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Forest Chopmaster 12" Blade

So as high as the reviews are on the Woodworker II table saw blades I decided for like an extra $30 over non-Forest blades for my miter saw to go for it. Keeping my fingers crossed Forest blades are all everyone says they are.

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post #2 of 18 Old 07-13-2020, 07:57 AM
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I am beyond pleased with my Woodworker II on the table saw.

I tried the 12" Chopmaster and didn't find it to perform any better than blades 1/2 the cost on my Bosch saw.

I never tested to see if the saw was the issue to be fair, with the same setup, 2 different blades I had more tear out and splintering with the Forrest blade.
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post #3 of 18 Old 07-14-2020, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot summ View Post
I am beyond pleased with my Woodworker II on the table saw.

I tried the 12" Chopmaster and didn't find it to perform any better than blades 1/2 the cost on my Bosch saw.

I never tested to see if the saw was the issue to be fair, with the same setup, 2 different blades I had more tear out and splintering with the Forrest blade.
Bummer, hope it was the saw LOL

Bill F.
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post #4 of 18 Old 07-14-2020, 12:58 AM
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I too, like everyone was suckered into purchasing a Woodworker II. If you restrict your cutting to inch depth it is a great blade. As the thickness increases above , the going gets more difficult. Much above 6/4, the cutting is most difficult.

The problem is that the Woodworker II blades are general purpose as opposed to combination. For the work that 99.9% of us do, a combination blade is the much better choice. The combination blades have the larger gullets to clear out the swarf during rip cuts. For a 10 inch saw blade there are two general configurations, 40 or 50 teeth. The configuration is either 8 or 10 groups of four ATB teeth and one Raker tooth. The 40 tooth models are far more common than the 50 tooth models.

Oh, regardless of the blade used, sanding is still required.

A general bit of advice, avoid narrow kerf blades for two reasons.

First your splitter / riving knife thickness is designed for full kerf cuts. On a right tilting saw the cuts will be pulled away from the fence. On a left tilting saw, your cuts will really drag as the cut is pinched against the fence.

Second your fence ruler is adjusted for a full kerf blade. While this is not too terribly important on a right tilt table saw, on a left tilt saw your measurements will be off by about 1/32 inch (A thin mm).

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post #5 of 18 Old 07-14-2020, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoThankyou View Post
...
A general bit of advice, avoid narrow kerf blades for two reasons.

First your splitter / riving knife thickness is designed for full kerf cuts. On a right tilting saw the cuts will be pulled away from the fence. On a left tilting saw, your cuts will really drag as the cut is pinched against the fence.

Second your fence ruler is adjusted for a full kerf blade. While this is not too terribly important on a right tilt table saw, on a left tilt saw your measurements will be off by about 1/32 inch (A thin mm).
My riving knife provides a range of acceptable blade kerfs that it will work with safely.

Even my cheapo table saw allows the ruler to be adjusted for the blade kerf - literally takes less than 30 seconds to set it for a new blade. Doesn't every saw do that?



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post #6 of 18 Old 07-14-2020, 01:55 PM
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I have three high-end blades:

* Woodworker II, standard kerf (WW10407125)
https://www.forrestblades.com/woodwo...or-table-saws/
https://www.forrestblades.com/woodwo...lade-40-teeth/
I wish I had bought the standard kerf Woodworker II in the "modified #6" configuration with the raker tooth for flat bottoms (WW10406125):
https://www.forrestblades.com/woodwo...ied-6-atbr-en/

* Woodworker II modified #6, thin kerf (WW10406100)
https://www.forrestblades.com/woodworker-ii-thin-kerf/
https://www.forrestblades.com/woodwo...dified-6-atbr/
This is the "modified" blade type recommended by Forrest's expert (see below), although I wish I had bought the full kerf version. Someday.

* Freud Premier Fusion P410:
https://www.freudtools.com/index.php/products/P410
This is the blade I bought after talking with Freud's representative in the store (see below).

In addition, I have some "free" blades that came with my table saws and other cheap blades that I use for cutting up scrap and harvesting wood from old furniture.


Comments about Terminology - General Purpose vs. Combination:

Most of us think of general purpose blades as having ATB configurations with evenly spaced teeth and uniform gullets.

Most of us think of combination blades with groups of five teeth: four ATB and one raker tooth. There is a larger gap between the groups of five teeth, and the gullet there is also deeper.

As noted above, you can buy the Forrest Woodworker II where every fifth tooth is a raker tooth. I have one of those blades. The spacing is the same as a general purpose blade, but the raker tooth is like a combination blade. What do you call it?

Not everyone agrees on the terminology anyway. The March/April 2018 issue of Fine Woodworking magazine has an article on "Combination Sawblades." Despite the article's title and text, many of blade label images have "General Purpose" printed on the blade labels. Even though the article compares "combination blades" and uses the term throughout, every blade pictured has evenly spaced teeth and evenly sized gullets - what we would call a "general purpose" blade.


Fine Woodworking Magazine Test Results:

The author compared eight full kerf blades. The author tested crosscut quality in pine, cherry, and plywood, and rip quality in pine and cherry. He also measured rip speed in 8/4 maple.

The author awarded "Best Overall" and "Best Value" to the Freud Premier Fusion P410. He also awarded "Best Overall" to the Forrest Woodworker II and the Ridge Carbide TS2000.

The comments were that the Freud Fusion yielded the cleanest crosscuts and rip cuts, but the rip speed was slow. The Forrest Woodworker II was "clean and smooth" in pine and cherry with some chip out in plywood and light scoring on pine. The Ridge Carbide TS2000 had clean crosscuts, fuzziness in plywood, fast clean rips, but light scoring in softwood rips cuts.


Conversations with Forrest and Freud Experts:

I have spoken with the Forrest technical support expert about their blades. He was the one who encouraged me to buy the modified #6 Woodworker II blade, saying it was just as clean cutting as the regular ATB-only Woodworker II blade, but with faster rip cuts and a flat bottom. My friends have suggested that it may result in more chipout on the bottom of the workpiece. I haven't noticed "more" chipout than the ATB-only blades. I still get chipout, especially poorly supported cuts where I expect it.

I happened to be shopping at the Rockler store when the Freud representative was visiting. He encouraged me to buy the Fusion blade. His arguments for Freud Fusion over Forrest Woodworker II were:

* Freud makes their own C4 carbide and he says it is better than the carbide that Forrest buys from someone else.
* Forrest blades are a solid product, but it is their sharpening that makes them special. He says that if you let the local sharpener sharpen your Forrest blade, you will get a good, but ordinary blade. (I wonder if you send your average, run-of-the-mill blade to Forrest for sharpening, you will get a "better" blade?)
* Freud's Fusion blades have a high-ATB angle for cleaner cuts, and the face grind and side grind are special to reduce friction and heat.

He sold me. I bought the Fusion but have made only a few cuts with it. Despite the Fine Woodworking review, it yielded about the same level of scoring marks as the Woodworker II blades. (I have used it only on red oak so far.) I need to try it on more woods and cut types.


I hope this helps someone.
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post #7 of 18 Old 07-14-2020, 02:09 PM
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OP looking forward to your review of the 12" after you have some experience with it!
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post #8 of 18 Old 07-14-2020, 03:16 PM
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I use only thin kerf blades ...... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoThankyou View Post
I too, like everyone was suckered into purchasing a Woodworker II. If you restrict your cutting to inch depth it is a great blade. As the thickness increases above , the going gets more difficult. Much above 6/4, the cutting is most difficult.

The problem is that the Woodworker II blades are general purpose as opposed to combination. For the work that 99.9% of us do, a combination blade is the much better choice. The combination blades have the larger gullets to clear out the swarf during rip cuts. For a 10 inch saw blade there are two general configurations, 40 or 50 teeth. The configuration is either 8 or 10 groups of four ATB teeth and one Raker tooth. The 40 tooth models are far more common than the 50 tooth models.

Oh, regardless of the blade used, sanding is still required.

A general bit of advice, avoid narrow kerf blades for two reasons.

(1) First your splitter / riving knife thickness is designed for full kerf cuts. On a right tilting saw the cuts will be pulled away from the fence. On a left tilting saw, your cuts will really drag as the cut is pinched against the fence.

(2) Second your fence ruler is adjusted for a full kerf blade. While this is not too terribly important on a right tilt table saw, on a left tilt saw your measurements will be off by about 1/32 inch (A thin mm).

As to point number (1) false. The splitters on, my Craftsman saws are 40+ years old, long before thin kerf blades were common. They work just fine. I use Diablo thin kerf 50 and 40 tooth blade most often.


As to point number (2) The fine line indicator on the fence is adjustable to zero on what ever kerf thickness you have. You adjust it, not the factory. I make a rip of approximately 2", then precisely measure it and then set my fence indicator to match the measurement ..... so it's exactly the same.


If you have a splitter, USE it! It's a safety device, but it may also serve as a mounting point for the blade guard. I drilled out the rivets for the blade guard and anti kickback pawls as they were either in the way for narrow rips OR they would not allow partial trail cuts or shoulder cuts without lifting them out of the way. Both situations were annoying to me, but you do as you choose for yourself.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 07-14-2020 at 03:32 PM.
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post #9 of 18 Old 07-15-2020, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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OP looking forward to your review of the 12" after you have some experience with it!
I will be sure to post one, thanks

Bill F.
post #10 of 18 Old 07-15-2020, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
* Forrest blades are a solid product, but it is their sharpening that makes them special. He says that if you let the local sharpener sharpen your Forrest blade, you will get a good, but ordinary blade. (I wonder if you send your average, run-of-the-mill blade to Forrest for sharpening, you will get a "better" blade?)
I'm very pleased with their sharpening service, had my WWII done recently, didn't realize how dull it was...

I did send a cheap 12" for the miter saw in as well, it is the blade on the saw now, and I am very pleased with it as well.
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post #11 of 18 Old 07-15-2020, 11:49 AM
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Thanks for your post regarding your experiences with Forrest and Freud blades. I have been contemplating the purchase of a Forrest blade. I was wondering if you could say a little more about your ripping experience with the #6 modified grind blade. I realize you wish you had purchased the full kerf version, so you probably experience a little more flex with the thin kerf but I am curious how you feel it performs when ripping 1.5 inch to 2.25 inch cherry/maple/ or walnut. Thanks
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post #12 of 18 Old 07-15-2020, 04:32 PM
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Thin kerf VS full kerf ....

It's been years since I've used a full kerf blade on my table saws or radial arm saws. I believe my older Dewalt 708 12" miter saw came with a full kerf and it's still on there, but it doesn't get used much at all. As to blade flexing with the thin kerf, in my experience, when cross cutting a slight amount off the end of a board or any material where the cut is not engaging all the material at the same time, is when it may wander because that side of the blade is not really well supported. When ripping, if the feed rate is too fast the motor will slow down, and let you know to go slower. If really pushed too hard, and fast, the blade will overheat and it will take a permanent warp. This only happened one time in a pressure treated 2 X 6 and it was wet and pinching the kerf closed, but I needed to finish the cut.

I do own a Forrest WW2 blade, but honestly, I've had no occasion to try it. I own other full kerf blades of reasonable quality, an Anama, and some Deltas made in Israel, real nice blades and one German made blade who brand name escapes me, but again, I've had no good reason to try them out.

Stumpy Nubs recommends Ridge Carbide as a great high end blade for less money than the Forrest brand. Amana also is a great high quality brand.


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 07-15-2020 at 04:54 PM.
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post #13 of 18 Old 07-15-2020, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elden Cozort View Post
Thanks for your post regarding your experiences with Forrest and Freud blades. I have been contemplating the purchase of a Forrest blade. I was wondering if you could say a little more about your ripping experience with the #6 modified grind blade. I realize you wish you had purchased the full kerf version, so you probably experience a little more flex with the thin kerf but I am curious how you feel it performs when ripping 1.5 inch to 2.25 inch cherry/maple/ or walnut. Thanks
I wish I could answer the question for you with gobs of experience rip cutting thick boards.

I have run a small amount of 1.5 inch (6/4) maple in rip cuts with the thin kerf Forrest Woodworker II with the modified #6 (raker tooth) blade. The cuts were smooth and clean, no burning. I do not pay attention to rip cut feed rates. I just push the board through the cut with a gentle, steady pressure. I do not remember needing extra force or anything like that.

Sorry I cannot help more, but I want you to know that I saw your question.
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post #14 of 18 Old 07-15-2020, 08:49 PM
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I have four different Forrest blades, one being a chopmaster. I have had it for a long time and trimmed out a lot of kitchens and houses with it. After about ten years, I sent it back to them for sharpening, came back good as new. I have used the other blades on my table saw and really like the ripping blade. I've run a lot of stock through it and it isn't still producing nice cuts. Everyone uses their tools a little difference, so I take everything I read with a grain of salt. I have been to three or four Forrest demos. You can learn a lot about setting up your saw for various types of cuts, and the old timer doing the demo does a good job.
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post #15 of 18 Old 07-16-2020, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post

* Forrest blades are a solid product, but it is their sharpening that makes them special. He says that if you let the local sharpener sharpen your Forrest blade, you will get a good, but ordinary blade. (I wonder if you send your average, run-of-the-mill blade to Forrest for sharpening, you will get a "better" blade?)

I hope this helps someone.
Yeah, tell me about it! I was in the same store and let them send out a blade for sharpening. An Italian made blade. It was a free blade with the purchase of a dado set. A combination blade that had virtually no chip out in wood, plywood, Melamine particle board and Formica. What came back was a nice sharp ordinary meh blade.

IIRC - Farr has the machines that can sharpen WWII blades. Their website is www.Farrstools.com. But they are a non-secure website. Which means almost nothing although I have messed up settings in Edge and can't get there from here.

Sometimes I hate Microsoft.

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post #16 of 18 Old 07-16-2020, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoThankyou View Post
Yeah, tell me about it! I was in the same store and let them send out a blade for sharpening. An Italian made blade. It was a free blade with the purchase of a dado set. A combination blade that had virtually no chip out in wood, plywood, Melamine particle board and Formica. What came back was a nice sharp ordinary meh blade.

IIRC - Farr has the machines that can sharpen WWII blades. Their website is (BAD Link Removed). But they are a non-secure website. Which means almost nothing although I have messed up settings in Edge and can't get there from here.

Sometimes I hate Microsoft.
Sometimes Microsoft protects you from yourself. The website you mentioned above was taken over by a domain squatter, and may not be safe. Do not click on the link.

Farr's Tools, formerly in Placentia, CA is now called "Kairos Tooling." They are a merger of Daily Saw Service, A-1 Saw and Tool Inc., American Saw and Tool, and Farr's Custom Carbide Tooling. They are located in Santa Fe Springs, CA.

https://kairostooling.com

Last edited by John Smith_inFL; 07-17-2020 at 10:45 AM.
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post #17 of 18 Old 07-17-2020, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoThankyou View Post
Yeah, tell me about it! I was in the same store and let them send out a blade for sharpening. An Italian made blade. It was a free blade with the purchase of a dado set. A combination blade that had virtually no chip out in wood, plywood, Melamine particle board and Formica. What came back was a nice sharp ordinary meh blade.

IIRC - Farr has the machines that can sharpen WWII blades. Their website is (BAD Link Removed). But they are a non-secure website. Which means almost nothing although I have messed up settings in Edge and can't get there from here.

Sometimes I hate Microsoft.
Way off topic but I finally got fed up with Microsoft Edge randomly losing my favorites and switched to Firefox 6 mos ago and it is so much superior! My desktop, laptop, iPad and iPhone Firefox's app, all update each other with saved bookmarks.

Bill F.

Last edited by John Smith_inFL; 07-17-2020 at 10:46 AM.
post #18 of 18 Old 07-17-2020, 08:39 AM
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Way off topic but I finally got fed up with Microsoft Edge randomly losing my favorites and switched to Firefox 6 mos ago and it is so much superior! My desktop, laptop, iPad and iPhone Firefox's app, all update each other with saved bookmarks.
Chrome does the same, I haven't used MS's browser in a decade or more.
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