Electrical issues for machines - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
It's always good to have a meter around the house but one of these is really easy when it comes to checking for power -

Attachment 330098

Every big box store has them, Amazon has them, inexpensive and easy to use. I bought one in the 70's and am still using the same one!

David

That is a good thing for trouble shooting miswiring but it really doesn't tell you if there is a voltage drop
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post #22 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Catpower View Post
That is a good thing for trouble shooting miswiring but it really doesn't tell you if there is a voltage drop
You are correct, sir. I meant more for when he was talking about identifying circuits when he turned breakers off. Just takes a quick glance. They're just handy to have in your troubleshooting arsenal.

David
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post #23 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 07:12 PM
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Since the main breaker box is close to the garage it may be the wires going to the outlets are 14 gauge. This alone can be a problem. It's also possible since you have power problems throughout the house you may be drawing more power at the main than your service can provide. If it's an old house sometimes especially if a house is wired with aluminum wire you have to upgrade the electrical. On an old house people just ran a few lights and maybe some fans. It's a far cry from running electric heaters or air conditioning. You have this stuff running and then need power for for a saw it might be too much.

You might turn the breaker off to the outlet you are trying to use for your saw and pull the receptacle out of the wall and measure the diameter of the metal part of the wire and post the results. Also note if the wire is copper or aluminum. This will give us an idea what you have now.
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post #24 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sonofasmith View Post
if you see that there are more breakers on one column than the other
It doesn't work that way on a 230v service. Every other breaker in the column is fed by the same line. The breakers in between are fed by the other line. That's how you get 230v from a 2 pole breaker.

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post #25 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 07:34 PM
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Bingo!

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Originally Posted by Goetzwood View Post
Thank you for the price break down. I will definitely be looking into that option.
Also thank you for your alternative view, I just bought the equipment from my grandfather in law, and did assume it was all already in working order. I did not check the blade before attempting the cut (rookie move). It is a 10” 60T diablo fine finish, miter saw/ table saw blade. That could definitely be attributing to the problem... thank you sir. Still have some learning to do. Still looking into the electrical issue, as I am still worried about getting enough power to the garage. I did discover it looks like the garage line is also attached to the bathroom and the “utility”.
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Actually that is a very good saw blade
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Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post

A very good sawblade but maybe contributing to the bogging down when ripping on an underpowered table saw.

Might do better with fewer teeth.
Same situation for the bandsaw. An overall bandsaw adjustment with a new skip tooth blade might make a big difference.
I rarely have a 60 tooth blade in my table saws.
I have used them to crosscut in my RAS. My table saws are used primarily for ripping, and when working with plywood I will use a 60 tooth to prevent tear out. Ripping with a 60 tooth is a crap shoot depending on the material and it's thickness. I do use a 50 tooth combination Diablo for most of my table saw work, and for ripping thicker stock I use a 24 tooth Diablo.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-20-2017 at 07:40 PM.
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post #26 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catpower View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post

A very good sawblade but maybe contributing to the bogging down when ripping on an underpowered table saw.
Might do better with fewer teeth.
Same situation for the bandsaw. An overall bandsaw adjustment with a new skip tooth blade might make a big 99difference.
I just didn't want him to go spend money on a new blade because that is a good blade, if it hasn't been abused or worn out. Make sure everything is up to snuff before buying a new blade

I still would bet 14 ga wire and a pretty long run, but if the wire is grossly undersized the long run won't make that much difference he would still have low voltage
The blade he's running is indeed a good blade but it's not made for ripping. A good 10" Diablo glue line rip with 24T is only $29 at Home Depot

Last edited by Masterofnone; 12-20-2017 at 08:09 PM.
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post #27 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 10:40 PM
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"We also have issues inside the house with lights sometimes flickering when we run the microwave."

It sounds like you have an electrical problem, get a licensed electrician in to check things out, once you have a hands on opinion you can go from there.
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post #28 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_slat View Post
It doesn't work that way on a 230v service. Every other breaker in the column is fed by the same line. The breakers in between are fed by the other line. That's how you get 230v from a 2 pole breaker.

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Thanks for the correction I wasn't aware of that.

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post #29 of 33 Old 12-21-2017, 11:42 AM
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And if on inspection you have a Federal Pacific breaker box it needs to be changed out, they are fires waiting to happen
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post #30 of 33 Old 12-21-2017, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Pineknot_86 View Post
I had to run a separate line, 20 amp, for my shop. The entire basement originally had one breaker with four outlets. I can use the original line but have to turn off the electric heater in the den to use the shop vac or anything else. For electrical, you can get books at the library or Lowe's that detail what you need to do or get an electrician if you aren't comfortable. If you run the wire outside of the wall like I had to do, you need conduit, gang boxes, and connectors.
Keep in mind that if you install a circuit and it is faulty, your insurance might not cover a claim.

I'm a LLE in TN (limited liability etectrician)( lisc to allow bids/installs up to $25,000.)
In most places a home owner IS allowed to install at his residence BUT IT MUST be inspected to code and also get the permit(s). Some municipalities/states vary to requirements.

1) MOST places require inspection(s)......AND with so many costly claims insurance companies are getting stricter on proper inspections/permits and are starting to deny claims that have yielded not to obey laws/rules.
2) From the info you've given....generally this size box you find in a pre 70'-60's built house and will be approx 800-1,100 sf which usually equals to a mix of more 15 than 20 amp circuits.
3) DON'T attempt a "upgrade/change" from 15-20 amp breaker as most of the time the wire is ONLY rated for 15 amps.
4) Usually a 100 amp box is already to it's max capacity at this day and time ...so a 50 amp seperate/additional box would NOT be advisible
5) IF your already having dimming lights and etc. prior to getting TS there's a possibility you may be losing a leg (weaker current from various things BUT more common ones are loose lugs, wire getting old and weak, corrosion at lug contact points, many , many more) Part of this can be checked by a qualified electrician and in some places the electric company will check from their pole to your meter. I've had them tighten several that over the years had lost that tight bond or their connectors had corroded.
6) I normally DON'T recommend a homeowner (especially as you stated you DON'T know anything about it) to do this type of repairs/install....YES it isn't hard BUT it can be dangerous if not done properly. I AM NOT saying you can't do it.....I'm SAYING I DON'T know your SKILLS!!!!
7) The electrician Should be lisc'd....ALWAYS require permits pulled....IF a electrician ask you to obtain them (permits) then that's a usual sign he isn't lisc'd or certified....you pay the same price as he should, so it doesn't save money as I heard one tell a owner.
8) blades can effect the power draw BUT it's most likely the above.....and yes sappy pine does pull hard also.
9) dry testing (not under a load) the legs sometimes gives false positive (good/working) numbers and once a demand/load is required the numbers drop considerably and usually means a bad connection

Good luck and be safe with your decisions

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
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Reveling God's awesome beauty while creating one of-a-kind flitches and heirlooms.

Last edited by Tennessee Tim; 12-21-2017 at 11:12 PM.
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post #31 of 33 Old 12-22-2017, 08:49 AM
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it sounds as though your equipment is not the problem. we can take educated guesses at the possibilities, but the real troubleshooting needs to happen there.

follow Franks advice, and bring in someone knowledgeable about electricity. it should not take long to diagnose the issue and offer a corrective action for you.
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post #32 of 33 Old 12-22-2017, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofasmith View Post
When you look at the breakers in the panel, there should be two columns of breakers and if you see that there are more breakers on one column than the other, or more things on one side that draw alot of current, than the other, than you may lose voltage when you run your saw. Basically the load on the panel should be balanced but if you say that your not using much else at the time then that's probably not it. Hopefully I haven't confused you yet.

Next I would shut off the breaker to the garage outlet and then go around the house and test the other outlets switches and appliances and see if anything else is off and that will tell you if the circuit is shared.

Let me know if I'm rambling


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You are rambling. Doesn't matter how the breakers are as far as which side. Every other breaker in a column is on one phase, the next breaker in the column is on the opposite phase. The only way to know if the load is balanced is to see which loads are on which phase and how big the loads are. Load on each phase should somewhat balance.

Alexis de Tocqueville was a very smart man.
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post #33 of 33 Old 12-22-2017, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Alchymist View Post
You are rambling. Doesn't matter how the breakers are as far as which side. Every other breaker in a column is on one phase, the next breaker in the column is on the opposite phase. The only way to know if the load is balanced is to see which loads are on which phase and how big the loads are. Load on each phase should somewhat balance.
Yea now I realize I didn't know what I was talking about there. I knew it should be balanced but I guessed the rest. Thanks for straightening me out

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