Electrical issues for machines - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Electrical issues for machines

Hi everyone! Iím new to this website. Sorry Iím a terrible writer. Just getting started in my garage with my new workshop. Getting all of my machines set up and already running into issues. Tried making some cuts on the table saw, was just ripping a 3/4Ē pine board and got about an inch deep when the blade came to a stop. I also noticed when I was using the band saw it was difficult to push the wood through, couldnít get a straight cut. I 5hinknive discovered the problem but need some expert knowledge. Iím thinking the house isnít getting enough power to get the blades up the speed. We also have issues inside the house with lights sometimes flickering when we run the microwave. Any ideas on what my options are going forward? Canít I get more power to the house? Can I use an external generator of sorts?

Again, sorry for my lack of knowledge, just getting started.
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post #2 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goetzwood View Post
Hi everyone! Iím new to this website. Sorry Iím a terrible writer. Just getting started in my garage with my new workshop. Getting all of my machines set up and already running into issues. Tried making some cuts on the table saw, was just ripping a 3/4Ē pine board and got about an inch deep when the blade came to a stop. I also noticed when I was using the band saw it was difficult to push the wood through, couldnít get a straight cut. I 5hinknive discovered the problem but need some expert knowledge. Iím thinking the house isnít getting enough power to get the blades up the speed. We also have issues inside the house with lights sometimes flickering when we run the microwave. Any ideas on what my options are going forward? Canít I get more power to the house? Can I use an external generator of sorts?

Again, sorry for my lack of knowledge, just getting started.
Do you know how many amps your service is? Sounds like you either have too much of a load on one circuit or too much of a load on one line of your service.

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post #3 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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The electrical box says 100 amps. I just have one outlet in the garage, but when I was running the table saw just had it and a light going at the same time.
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post #4 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 10:31 AM
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Are you sure that the circuit for the garage isn't share with anything else, and are you sure that the table saw is rated for 110 volts? Is the saw old or new? Do you have alot of other appliances and devices on in the house at the same time? If you have issues with the lights and microwave at the same time then you may have too many things powered off of one side of your service panel.

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post #5 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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The table saw is a craftsman 10Ē contractor saw. Only other things on in the house would be a couple lights on at the same time. The saw is newer. Manual says itís prewired for 120v 60HZ power supply. Not sure about the how many things are tied together. How would I found out info on the service panel?
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post #6 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 10:46 AM
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Sounds like you may want to install or have installed a dedicated circuit or so just for your shop.
Everything in my shop runs off a circuit that goes nowhere else and I really need to add another someday..My extension cords have all developed arthritis to match my limbs..
Whoever designed the electrical layout here probably never considered that anyone might ever use the garage for anything other than parking cars in it. Both outlets are located in the worse possible locations always behind other large objects..I have big heavy extensions running hither hather....and by the way 'hither hather' is an actual technical term to specifically describe my shop. Chaos wouldn't quite do it justice.

I figured it's time to change my signature so hold your breath. This is it.
Impressive, huh?
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post #7 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 10:52 AM
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When you look at the breakers in the panel, there should be two columns of breakers and if you see that there are more breakers on one column than the other, or more things on one side that draw alot of current, than the other, than you may lose voltage when you run your saw. Basically the load on the panel should be balanced but if you say that your not using much else at the time then that's probably not it. Hopefully I haven't confused you yet.

Next I would shut off the breaker to the garage outlet and then go around the house and test the other outlets switches and appliances and see if anything else is off and that will tell you if the circuit is shared.

Let me know if I'm rambling


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post #8 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Not confusing at all. Iíll give that a try later today. Thanks so much for your help.
To respond to the other post also, would it be costly to instal a circuit for the garage only?
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post #9 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 11:17 AM
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Not confusing at all. I’ll give that a try later today. Thanks so much for your help.
To respond to the other post also, would it be costly to instal a circuit for the garage only?
A 20 amp breaker runs around $10-20 and there's the price of wire, around $20-30 for 50' of romex.. I'm guessing the entire circuit, breaker, wire, outlet, boxes, nails, etc. around $50 give or take a few bucks.
An electrician would probably cost triple, but it's not rocket science to install a circuit.
There's also a chance that you already have a spare circuit in the box just waiting for you to use. I have about 4 spares that have never been tapped into..

I figured it's time to change my signature so hold your breath. This is it.
Impressive, huh?

Last edited by allpurpose; 12-20-2017 at 11:21 AM.
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post #10 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 11:25 AM
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If there is a Harbor Freight close to you buy one of their multimeters and set it up for voltage, stick the ends of the meter terminals in the other outlet and turn on the saw and read the voltage.

It will take two people to do the next thing, after the saw is up and running slowly try to cut a board, and see what the meter reads. They might have just run a 14 ga wire for a 15 amp circuit, and when the voltage drops it amp draw goes high real fast, and the motor will over heat and shut off

It doesn't have to be a Harbor Freight meter just some inexpensive meter since it might be the only time you ever use it
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post #11 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 11:58 AM
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Are we totally sure this is an electrical issue and not a machine or stock issue?

Pine SUCKS to work with sometimes because it grows fast and has a lot of stress built up. Could be you're pinching or binding your blades. The fact that your bandsaw is bogging down and won't cut straight tells me the wood has lots of stress.

Also, I watched a guy kill a contractor saw table saw several times because he was trying to rip a 2x4 with a 60T cross cut blade. He simply didn't know any better.

These are possible solutions you should look into before you rewire stuff.
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post #12 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the price break down. I will definitely be looking into that option.
Also thank you for your alternative view, I just bought the equipment from my grandfather in law, and did assume it was all already in working order. I did not check the blade before attempting the cut (rookie move). It is a 10Ē 60T diablo fine finish, miter saw/ table saw blade. That could definitely be attributing to the problem... thank you sir. Still have some learning to do. Still looking into the electrical issue, as I am still worried about getting enough power to the garage. I did discover it looks like the garage line is also attached to the bathroom and the ďutilityĒ.
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post #13 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 01:50 PM
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Actually that is a very good saw blade
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post #14 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 02:14 PM
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Very often the main breaker box is on one end of the house and the garage is on the other. Then when the house is wired the electrical cheeps out and runs undersized wire. The undersized wire and distance often makes it impossible to run machinery. What would probably be the easiest long term solution would be to put a breaker box in your shop and run a 6ga wire from your main breaker box off of a 50 amp breaker. Then run the appropriate wire depending on the specifications of the machine. That way it would be a short distance so you wouldn't have a voltage drop as you would running everything off the main. The lighting would probably be better off left as it is. Sometimes when you turn on a machine especially a compressor there is so much power draw the lights dim or flicker.
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post #15 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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The breaker box in this house is immediately behind the garage in a little room with the washer and dryer.
So it sounds like I have some research to do on installing a new breaker.
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post #16 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 03:04 PM
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It's always good to have a meter around the house but one of these is really easy when it comes to checking for power -

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Every big box store has them, Amazon has them, inexpensive and easy to use. I bought one in the 70's and am still using the same one!

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post #17 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 03:41 PM
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Actually that is a very good saw blade
A very good sawblade but maybe contributing to the bogging down when ripping on an underpowered table saw.
Might do better with fewer teeth.
Same situation for the bandsaw. An overall bandsaw adjustment with a new skip tooth blade might make a big difference.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #18 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 04:52 PM
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A 20 amp breaker runs around $10-20 and there's the price of wire, around $20-30 for 50' of romex.. I'm guessing the entire circuit, breaker, wire, outlet, boxes, nails, etc. around $50 give or take a few bucks.
An electrician would probably cost triple, but it's not rocket science to install a circuit.
There's also a chance that you already have a spare circuit in the box just waiting for you to use. I have about 4 spares that have never been tapped into..
It is not "rocket science" to install a circuit, that is if the INSTALLER KNOWS WHAT HE/SHE IS DOING.

This person is obviously not even a beginner. I WOULD NOT in any way encourage him to do his own electrical installation. It is too dangerous both from a personal injury viewpoint and from a fire hazard viewpoint. Besides that I am sure it would not meet code.

George
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post #19 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 05:03 PM
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I had to run a separate line, 20 amp, for my shop. The entire basement originally had one breaker with four outlets. I can use the original line but have to turn off the electric heater in the den to use the shop vac or anything else. For electrical, you can get books at the library or Lowe's that detail what you need to do or get an electrician if you aren't comfortable. If you run the wire outside of the wall like I had to do, you need conduit, gang boxes, and connectors.
Keep in mind that if you install a circuit and it is faulty, your insurance might not cover a claim.

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post #20 of 33 Old 12-20-2017, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post

A very good sawblade but maybe contributing to the bogging down when ripping on an underpowered table saw.
Might do better with fewer teeth.
Same situation for the bandsaw. An overall bandsaw adjustment with a new skip tooth blade might make a big difference.
I just didn't want him to go spend money on a new blade because that is a good blade, if it hasn't been abused or worn out. Make sure everything is up to snuff before buying a new blade

I still would bet 14 ga wire and a pretty long run, but if the wire is grossly undersized the long run won't make that much difference he would still have low voltage
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