double screw or suggestions? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 18Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 14
View artmakersworlds's Photo Album My Photos
double screw or suggestions?

Hi all,
Right to the point.

I carve hiking sticks BUT only tall straight ones. The shorter kind with a handle I have to get very lucky in finding a stick with a natural handle shape. Rare indeed.
SO.... had the idea if I could attach a piece, this would solve my whole problem.
Looked up double sided screws, however, every one I find has a gap between each end. What is to keep the thing from driving too far on one side and not enough on the other?
This is one I have in mind but so far I only see it on this horrible made in china site I want nothing to do with. Only picture I can find though.

https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB11tkeK...pg_350x350.jpg
See that little stopper in the middle?
Does this thing have a particular name I'm just not aware of?
Tried "double ended screw" and variants on that but ever one only has a gap between ends. Not that little ring that would keep it from going too deep.
I'm thinking if I buy say a ball shape piece of wood and try to attach that to the end of a stick, the stick would likely be harder than the dry ball and this could be a problem with the screw going too far into one piece and not far enough in the other.



OR does anyone have a better idea?
artmakersworlds is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to artmakersworlds For This Useful Post:
Onefreetexan (04-21-2020)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 02:56 PM
Moderator
 
John Smith_inFL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,408
View John Smith_inFL's Photo Album My Photos
welcome to the forum.
sorry but your photo did not come out.
I'm not really understanding your question so far.
do you want to attach a handle to a short stick to make
a walking cane ?
do you want to fabricate your own handle part and not buy
a pre-made commercial type ?
Pinterest has hundreds of examples. if you could snag one
of them that you like and post it here, that would be a great help.

also, when you say: "I carve hiking sticks", that leaves a lot to the imagination.
do you have some photos of your past projects ??
do you have any experience working with two-part epoxy ??

.

there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks.

Last edited by John Smith_inFL; 04-19-2020 at 03:15 PM.
John Smith_inFL is online now  
post #3 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 03:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 5,652
View FrankC's Photo Album My Photos
As I see it, drill one pilot hole just the depth you want the screw to enter, drill the other a bit deeper, the screw will stop at the bottom of the first hole and continue to thread into the other with the least resistance. A brass washer might be a nice touch as a transition in the joint in some cases.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

FrankC
http://sawdustmaking.com
http://woodworkerglossary.com
FrankC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 04:33 PM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,921
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Picture doesnt work, but going off the description im guessing what youre looking for is called a hanger bolt:https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....AC_SL1000_.jpg

Like that one shows, generally they have a wood screw thread on one half and a machine screw thread on the other, but im sure that there exists some type out there with wood screw threads on both ends. Alternately, you could stick with the standard style and install a threaded insert in one half of your part, preferably the ball end. Would solve your problem of having one side drive in too deep, plus youd be able to standardize one part of your design which is always nice. Interchangeable handles too

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #5 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 14
View artmakersworlds's Photo Album My Photos
Ok, lets try this. Image should work this way.


I thought of drilling holes to just the depth needed. Might be the only option if I can't find these with that little band between screws.


My thoughts for my first attempt is a simple staff with a ball on the top end. If this works I can attempt it with a handle. (Handle must hold more weight, that's why I thought an ornament piece would be a first try.)


I want to avoid glues if at all possible, though a pre drilled hole might do with a little glue in it before driving a screw in. Can't hurt.



BTW... is there any way to subscribe to a thread here so I get email notices? nothing showed up. I just thought I'd look and a bunch of people replied.
Attached Images
 

I paint, I carve, I do tons with polymer clay (most images are on pinterest.)


http://ArtmakersWorlds.com
artmakersworlds is offline  
post #6 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 14
View artmakersworlds's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
Picture doesnt work, but going off the description im guessing what youre looking for is called a hanger bolt:https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....AC_SL1000_.jpg

Like that one shows, generally they have a wood screw thread on one half and a machine screw thread on the other, but im sure that there exists some type out there with wood screw threads on both ends. Alternately, you could stick with the standard style and install a threaded insert in one half of your part, preferably the ball end. Would solve your problem of having one side drive in too deep, plus youd be able to standardize one part of your design which is always nice. Interchangeable handles too





AH I didn't think that would work. So the machine end would be what? The female part sunk into a hole? Glued in or what?

Seems the wood scree on each end would hold together better.

I paint, I carve, I do tons with polymer clay (most images are on pinterest.)


http://ArtmakersWorlds.com
artmakersworlds is offline  
post #7 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 06:09 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,718
View Tool Agnostic's Photo Album My Photos
@epicfail48 has it right. What you are looking for are hanger bolts and the threaded inserts to match.

Threaded inserts come in multiple types, and they are inserted in different ways. Getting them in straight can be tricky. Some threaded inserts use an allen (hex) wrench, others use a special insert tool (I got away with a flat-blade screwdriver and lots of care until I got the real insert tool). You can also use two nuts and a washer on the hanger bolt itself to get the threaded insert inserted. Some people use epoxy on the outside of the threaded inserts to give them extra strength and support.

Web searches for "hanger bolts" and "threaded inserts" will get you started. I didn't look, but I bet there are YouTube videos, too.
Tool Agnostic is offline  
post #8 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 06:12 PM
Moderator
 
John Smith_inFL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,408
View John Smith_inFL's Photo Album My Photos
ArtMaker, if we had a better understanding of what you are wanting to do,
it would narrow down the responses to be more accurate.
when I hear of your project, I do not think of "glue", I think of
two-part epoxy. which, when done correctly, is as strong or stronger
than the wood it is attached to.
can you make a few sketches of the pieces that will be joined together ?

.

there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks.
John Smith_inFL is online now  
post #9 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 06:23 PM
Moderator
 
John Smith_inFL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,408
View John Smith_inFL's Photo Album My Photos
in the USER CP area in the top right corner, you can edit
your signature line, add your location, choose a photo or avatar,
and a host of other options that will make your visit here more enjoyable.

double screw or suggestions?-edit-options.jpg

and when you are done with making any changes,
drop down to the bottom left corner of the page and SAVE your changes.
if you do not save, all your changes will be lost.
Name:  save.png
Views: 71
Size:  5.1 KB

.

there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks.

Last edited by John Smith_inFL; 04-19-2020 at 06:51 PM.
John Smith_inFL is online now  
post #10 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 06:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 12,340
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
A sketch of your design idea would be good. Help understand the problem.


george
GeorgeC is offline  
post #11 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 08:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 817
View Terry Q's Photo Album My Photos
I attach the top to a regular cane by drilling a hole bigger then the size of a section of 1/4 threaded rod. Put epoxy in the holes, insert the threaded rod and squeeze them together until dry. The threads have no purpose other then holding better than smooth rod.
Stevedore and John Smith_inFL like this.
Terry Q is offline  
post #12 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 08:25 PM
Ancient Termite
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Posts: 792
View NoThankyou's Photo Album My Photos
As the OP asked, Double screws have two names that I'm aware of.

In the stationary store, 'Chicago Screws' only because that is in the name of the company that makes them.

The other name that I've seen is 'Sex Screws' for obvious reasons.

There are all kinds of references through Bing or Google. McMasterCarr etc.

BTW - I had a secretary that ordered all of our office supplies. I asked to order some Chicago Screws. She asked me, with her eyes sort of glowing and a smile of anticipation, if that was a new way to have sex?

Rich
In furniture 1/32" is a Grand Canyon
NoThankyou is offline  
post #13 of 36 Old 04-19-2020, 08:59 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 653
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Q View Post
I attach the top to a regular cane by drilling a hole bigger then the size of a section of 1/4 threaded rod. Put epoxy in the holes, insert the threaded rod and squeeze them together until dry. The threads have no purpose other then holding better than smooth rod.
i've used this same method to attach cane handles
not sure it how well it will work with a long walking stick

as for the the double ended screw: if your stick is strictly ornamental, the screw will hold both ends together
it will not do it well from my experience
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0116161715.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	341.9 KB
ID:	387777  

Click image for larger version

Name:	0201161433a.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	225.4 KB
ID:	387779  

Click image for larger version

Name:	0125161645a.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	381.9 KB
ID:	387781  

_Ogre is offline  
post #14 of 36 Old 04-20-2020, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 14
View artmakersworlds's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
A sketch of your design idea would be good. Help understand the problem.


george



How about this. One of my very first sticks had an orb on top. That one was carved in but good enough to give you the idea here. (Doesn't need those support finger type things... keep it simple.)


http://www.artmakersworlds.com/walkingstick02.shtml


I want to do a space stick. That orb, once attached I will carve in some craters, little paint, make it look like the moon. I just can't carve a perfect ball like that.



Besides, that photo someone attached of sticks with those nice handles. Fantastic. Looks like one solid piece. That's what I'd be after for shorter sticks.



So ok, sounds like the double screw thing isn't the best.

The rod/epoxy sounds interesting. Might be the best idea here.

I paint, I carve, I do tons with polymer clay (most images are on pinterest.)


http://ArtmakersWorlds.com
artmakersworlds is offline  
post #15 of 36 Old 04-20-2020, 04:57 AM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,921
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by artmakersworlds View Post
AH I didn't think that would work. So the machine end would be what? The female part sunk into a hole? Glued in or what?

Seems the wood scree on each end would hold together better.
For the method im suggesting, youd also need some of these:
https://www.rockler.com/media/catalo...80-03-1000.jpg

Youd drill a larger hole in one of the pieces, screw in the threaded insert into that hole, then install the hanger bolt in the other piece. Bit more work, but its a very secure way of joining the 2 pieces

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #16 of 36 Old 04-20-2020, 07:16 AM
Moderator
 
John Smith_inFL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,408
View John Smith_inFL's Photo Album My Photos
Joining with Epoxy

ArtMaker - now that you have some options. all you gotta do is
assemble some materials together and practice on the styles that
you use in your world. being an artisan, you know that things don't
always pass the first (or second) test - just find what you are comfortable
with and practice it. this is why I asked you in my first post if you had
any experience with two-part epoxy. (not glue).

I use the technique of the threaded rod and epoxy for many things.
I started using it on broken chair legs and spindles back in the '80s.
now, I frequently use it for attaching wood and non-wood items together
that require a permanent, non-slip bond.
this is how I assembled some mallet heads recently.

Name:  mallet 008.JPG
Views: 68
Size:  111.8 KB

Name:  mallet 011.jpg
Views: 69
Size:  16.0 KB

double screw or suggestions?-metalheads-014.jpg

double screw or suggestions?-metalheads.jpg

of course there are scads of methods for attaching parts together.
everyone has their favorite. this just happens to be mine, and I trust it.


.

there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks.

Last edited by John Smith_inFL; 04-20-2020 at 08:58 AM.
John Smith_inFL is online now  
post #17 of 36 Old 04-20-2020, 12:28 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 653
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by artmakersworlds View Post
Besides, that photo someone attached of sticks with those nice handles. Fantastic. Looks like one solid piece. That's what I'd be after for shorter sticks.
i started making my own canes cuz i'm tall and commercial wood canes are short
some of my canes are one piece
i look for the right shape of branch as i tool around, probably like you do
this particular cane came off a neighbors pear tree
2nd pic is clamped to a column to dry for 6 mths
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0126131636.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	413.8 KB
ID:	387845  

Click image for larger version

Name:	0116131615.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	450.0 KB
ID:	387847  

John Smith_inFL likes this.
_Ogre is offline  
post #18 of 36 Old 04-21-2020, 05:14 AM
Senior Member
 
ducbsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Virginia
Posts: 428
View ducbsa's Photo Album My Photos
Ogre, what jig did you use to cut those canes?
ducbsa is offline  
post #19 of 36 Old 04-21-2020, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 14
View artmakersworlds's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post

.
OH wow. Ok, I think that is my best answer here. Your mallets look incredible. And they have to withstand a beating right? Looks like a perfect method to start out with here.

So this got easier than I thought. Pick up a rod and two part epoxy. (And a drill bit the right diameter... note to self.)

(and yes I have worked with two part epoxy occasion some. It's never been my first choice BUT for this? Oh yea.)


Thanks to all of you.

I paint, I carve, I do tons with polymer clay (most images are on pinterest.)


http://ArtmakersWorlds.com
artmakersworlds is offline  
post #20 of 36 Old 04-21-2020, 02:25 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 653
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducbsa View Post
Ogre, what jig did you use to cut those canes?
the only jig i use in cane making is a jigsaw

if i use a branch or raw wood i flatten one side with my electric plane
then i use the table saw to cut the 1" or 7/8" thickness
for the shaft width i use the table saw to get the shaft straight
jigsaw or band saw to cut the handle curves. pic above shows that
sand on harbor fright spindle sander if needed at this point
to get the round shape i use my router table with either 1/2" or 7/16" round over bit
finish sand with spindle sander and by hand

i thought i had a cane making thread, but couldn't find it
maybe i'll make one since i've made quite a few over the years
ducbsa and John Smith_inFL like this.
_Ogre is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome