Do I need special glue for Redwood? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-01-2019, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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Do I need special glue for Redwood?

I have a 4í 2x12 redwood plank that I have had for 40 years and during a long move it split down the middle with the grain. It was a clean split and easy enough to glue back together, but Iím concerned but it holding outside in the weather. I canít remember for sure, but I believe someone told me once that redwood was hard to glue and donít know if thatís true.

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post #2 of 16 Old 11-01-2019, 05:59 PM
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I used two part West System epoxy for years making
redwood signs. depending on your end use, I would not
recommend a water based glue as it "could" facilitate
the tannin to bleed through paint and some primers.
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post #3 of 16 Old 11-01-2019, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smith_inFL View Post
I used two part West System epoxy for years making
redwood signs. depending on your end use, I would not
recommend a water based glue as it "could" facilitate
the tannin to bleed through paint and some primers.
Thanks, I don't want the glue to show. I never used the 2 part epoxy, but I guess I'll learn. Will I have time to get get it together being such a long piece? I don't know how long before it sets up.

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post #4 of 16 Old 11-01-2019, 06:54 PM
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Johnny - the regular set epoxy takes about 30 minutes to set up,
depending on your ambient temperature.
for a four foot span, you will have more than enough time.
I prefer to wipe off as much excess squeeze out as possible before it sets
when using epoxy.
if you notice the raw wood blank in the above photo, there are
five glued 2x8 planks and the sign is about 6ft long.
do not use the syringe style 5 or 30 minute epoxies.
there were some discussions just last week on where to get
small amounts of "quality" epoxy. (also a hot topic on this forum).
do you have a plan yet to use your redwood ?

.

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post #5 of 16 Old 11-06-2019, 05:18 AM
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You can use both Gorilla glue and Tight-bond-2 for red wood. Tight-bond-2 is easier to clean up as it does not foam like the Gorilla glue. You don’t need to use any nails or screws but depends entirely on the glue joint

Last edited by John Smith_inFL; 11-06-2019 at 01:21 PM. Reason: removed the mention of the water test
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post #6 of 16 Old 11-16-2019, 03:57 PM
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Ive used redwood on guitars a few times and had no issues with titebond 2.

That said, be careful while clamping, redwood is extremely soft and hard nasty dents can happen if you even look at it wrong...
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post #7 of 16 Old 11-16-2019, 09:07 PM
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I am curious to know why people are recommending Titebond II for outdoor use?

Titebond II is water resistant. Titebond III is waterproof, and usually the recommended wood glue for outdoor uses. What am I missing?
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post #8 of 16 Old 11-16-2019, 09:13 PM
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Titebond 3 sucks is why lol. Jokes aside, titebond 2 is 1/3rd the cost and if you apply a proper finish, then water fastness is irrelevant. Titebond 3 is water RESISTANT, not water proof, and ultimately is just a needless expense. Can be extra insurance in specific use cases (i use it on kitchen and bathroom stuff for instance), but usually isnt necessary.
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post #9 of 16 Old 11-16-2019, 11:25 PM
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Having used TiteBond III on a California redwood potting bench, I would go with the TB III.

The bench has been in use for about 5 years without a problem.

BTW - California Redwood was chosen because of its supposed resistance to termites. The critters had gotten into the old one.

BTW2 - Before assembly I put the ends of the legs of the potting bench in baggies with Minwax Antique Oil Finish. About an inch of MAOF and let them sit for a few weeks until the MAOF had penetrated about 2 inches up the legs. Has done wonders for weathering etc.
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post #10 of 16 Old 11-16-2019, 11:26 PM
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Just a minor point here for the unaware.

The home centers sell both red wood and California Redwood. The difference is poop with red dye vs. species.

Rich
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post #11 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoThankyou View Post
Just a minor point here for the unaware.

The home centers sell both red wood and California Redwood. The difference is poop with red dye vs. species.
I got my rough piece of redwood in 1974 from a mill in Sonoma County CA where Redwoods actually grow.

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post #12 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob493 View Post
Titebond 3 sucks is why lol. Jokes aside, titebond 2 is 1/3rd the cost and if you apply a proper finish, then water fastness is irrelevant. Titebond 3 is water RESISTANT, not water proof, and ultimately is just a needless expense. Can be extra insurance in specific use cases (i use it on kitchen and bathroom stuff for instance), but usually isnt necessary.
So sorry, but you are incorrect. From Titebond's website, this source: http://www.titebond.com/community/the-big-three

Titebond II: 'In fact, it passes the ANSI/HPVA Type II water-resistance specification.'

Titebond III: 'It passes the more stringent ANSI/HPVA Type I specification, classifying it as ďwaterproofĒ.'

It is true that Titebond III costs more than Titebond II, but Titebond III is the best wood glue I know. I can use it in any application, including those where Titebond I or Titebond II would be sufficient.

The cost of glue is not a factor in my projects. I buy small bottles, and they usually age out before the bottle is empty. Why keep multiple glues around? With that consideration, having Titebond III solves any wood glue issues I may encounter, even though it is overkill for some projects.

Caveat: Titebond III dries more gray compared with Titebond I and II. In theory, you should not see the glue line with a proper tight joint. In practice, you might see it and that may be a consideration.
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post #13 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 02:13 PM
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Titebond may be playing with words a bit on their site, it is resistant enough to be classed as waterproof, but is that really so in actual use?

Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline. Not for structural or load bearing applications. Use when temperature, glue and materials are above 45įF. Store product below 75įF. Storage above this temperature may cause product to thicken and reduce the usable shelf life. If thickened, shake vigorously by firmly tapping bottle on a hard surface until product is restored to original form. Due to low pH, product may cause corrosion on metal surfaces, test product before using where rusting/corrosion may be of concern. Because of variances in the surfaces of treated lumber, it is a good idea to test for adhesion. For best results gluing exterior doors or exotic and oily woods, please contact our Technical Support Team at 1-800-347-4583. Read SDS before use. KEEP FROM FREEZING. KEEP OUT OF THE REACH OF CHILDREN.

http://www.titebond.com/product/glue...c-b53970f736af

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post #14 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
So sorry, but you are incorrect. From Titebond's website, this source: http://www.titebond.com/community/the-big-three

Titebond II: 'In fact, it passes the ANSI/HPVA Type II water-resistance specification.'

Titebond III: 'It passes the more stringent ANSI/HPVA Type I specification, classifying it as “waterproof”.'

It is true that Titebond III costs more than Titebond II, but Titebond III is the best wood glue I know. I can use it in any application, including those where Titebond I or Titebond II would be sufficient.

The cost of glue is not a factor in my projects. I buy small bottles, and they usually age out before the bottle is empty. Why keep multiple glues around? With that consideration, having Titebond III solves any wood glue issues I may encounter, even though it is overkill for some projects.

Caveat: Titebond III dries more gray compared with Titebond I and II. In theory, you should not see the glue line with a proper tight joint. In practice, you might see it and that may be a consideration.
We all have our usecases. I'd like to iterate that "waterproof" is a marketing term for the most part. Obviously water will damage the glue strength to some degree or another. That said, Titebond 2 is nearly as "waterproof" and almost half the cost. This may not matter spending 7 bucks every 3 months, but if you're buying healthy amounts of it, the difference can add up to a real hit to the wallet. That said, I have other reasons I dislike titebond 3. I dont like the viscosity, it just feels like more work than titebond 2. (Edit: I know that sounds kinda weird, and its hard to explain without both bottles in hand lol) I also have had weird finishing issues with titebond3. It's like when I clean up the squeeze out, a tiny bit absorbs into the wood or something and finishing with stains becomes more tedious and requires more sanding back than I care for. Oil finishes also have proven annoying sometimes. Might be a technique thing, but ive had no such issues with TB2 or 1. As I mentioned, in bathroom and kitchen stuff, where high humidity and heat are pretty ubiquitous, I will use titebond 3. If it works for you, not going to disparage using it, but between the absurdly higher cost, small improvement to water "proofness" over titebond 2, and the potential finish uses, I dont find myself reaching for the tb3 too much.


Heres an example of what Im talking about with the finish problems, this user calls it "ghosting". When you have it fresh sanded, ready to go, this glue residue is 100% invisible.


Last edited by bob493; 11-17-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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post #15 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 03:26 PM
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Peeling the glue off a joint when in that somewhat rubbery state seems like the best time to peel it off. Rarely do I get to do that because when i'm working, i dint remember to go back to it, Once it gets hard, it cant be peeled off and when scraping, you must go slow as to not rip up some of the wood with it. Either way is not fun. I have had the best luck scraping it up carefully right after glue-up and then wiping with a sopping wet rag followed by a dryer rag. when it dries in about 30 mins, then I can sand it.

Hope someone has a better idea

For outdoor stuff, I only use epoxy

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Last edited by Tony B; 11-17-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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post #16 of 16 Old 11-21-2019, 11:42 PM
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It's been a while, but I used to run glue bond tests when I worked in the millwork industry. The standards have changed, but ASTM D3434, Standard Test Method for Multiple-Cycle Accelerated Aging Test (Automatic Boil Test) for Exterior Wet Use Wood Adhesives, comes close. The tests I ran were a 4 hour immersion in boiling water followed by 20 hours in drying oven followed by a second 4 hour boil and a second 20 hour drying. Long term exposure tests at Forest Products Lab showed this test--it is a nasty one--is a good predictor of glue bond performance when exposed to weather.

This is a test for water resistant, non-structural glue bonds suitable for exposure to intermittent wetting in exterior applications like wood doors or finger jointed wood trim. Structural bonds exposed to weather, like laminated bridge trusses, or bonds exposed to continual immersion, like a boat hull, require more stringent tests.

No single component PVA or aliphatic resin glue I ever tested did well. Industrial PVA glues with acid catalysts cured in radio frequency presses did quite well, but these are not generally available. I found that urea formaldehyde glue like Weldwood or Unibond produced weatherable glue bonds as did epoxies like WEST System. I didn't get a chance to test the newer polyurethane glues like Gorilla glue, but I think they would also work.

I'm retired now, but I still do certification inspections in a plywood plant from time to time. They use phenolic resins in hot presses. Over the years I've worked with many operations that made their living doing weatherable glue bonds day in and day out. All those guys will only use a glue that proves itself in constant testing.

I like Titebond glue a lot, but I would not use it in an exterior application.
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