Differences between Cedars - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 03-22-2012, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Differences between Cedars

Hey guys. So, this has been a long time question of mine. what is the difference between all of the cedars?

Western red cedar
aromatic cedar
eastern cedar
white cedar
spanish cedar

I do know that western red cedar is pricey and is very red
I've got a customer that would prefer white cedar ADK chairs, but i'm looking at my price lists of local lumber yards, and one says they have aromatic and spanish. another says they have spanish. and the last only has hardwoods. None say western red cedar, though i know where i can get that but don't have a price list for that yard. Input is great! thanks guys

-Tyler
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post #2 of 15 Old 03-22-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tymann09 View Post
Hey guys. So, this has been a long time question of mine. what is the difference between all of the cedars?

Western red cedar
aromatic cedar
eastern cedar
white cedar
spanish cedar

I do know that western red cedar is pricey and is very red
I've got a customer that would prefer white cedar ADK chairs, but i'm looking at my price lists of local lumber yards, and one says they have aromatic and spanish. another says they have spanish. and the last only has hardwoods. None say western red cedar, though i know where i can get that but don't have a price list for that yard. Input is great! thanks guys
Read all about it:

Western Red Cedar
Aromatic Redcedar (same as Eastern Red)
Spanish Cedar





.
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post #3 of 15 Old 03-22-2012, 06:39 PM
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Have not used it but white cedar is alaskan. Western-easy to get for me is very soft and I think would not be right for chairs- silvers in an uncomfortable spot.
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post #4 of 15 Old 03-22-2012, 06:57 PM
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I believe that aromatic cedar is 'perhaps more accurately ' called eastern aromatic red cedar. It is the one that is used for lining hope chests, closets, and places that you want to keep moths out of.
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-22-2012, 07:01 PM
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I would use Spanish Cedar, aka puke wood.
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post #6 of 15 Old 03-22-2012, 09:58 PM
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[QUOTE=tymann09;319798]Hey guys. So, this has been a long time question of mine. what is the difference between all of the cedars?

Western red cedar
aromatic cedar
eastern cedar
white cedar
spanish cedar

I do know that western red cedar is pricey and is very red
I've got a customer that would prefer white cedar ADK chairs, but i'm looking at my price lists of local lumber yards, and one says they have aromatic and spanish. another says they have spanish. and the last only has hardwoods. None say western red cedar, though i know where i can get that but don't have a price list for that yard. Input is great! thanks guys[/QUOTE

Western red cedar is what you want to use, it will turn a beautiful grey after it weathers.
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post #7 of 15 Old 03-22-2012, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys, thanks for all the responses. I am aware that western cedar is obviously the best wood to use for adirondack chairs. however, i'm not about to charge my client over 900 dollars for a lousy adk chair set. I'd like middle range. It sounds like spanish cedar might be the thing to use in this case since i can get it for about 4 bucks a BF. it is also going to be stained a burgundy color (don't ask me, not my choice) so it doesn't need to be super pretty. I was really just curious what all the differences were.

-Tyler
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post #8 of 15 Old 03-22-2012, 10:56 PM
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Spanish is the best of the bunch to use for outside.

I would feel like I left something on the table if I only got 900 bucks for a couple custom built chairs.
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post #9 of 15 Old 03-22-2012, 11:31 PM
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I'm with warner, how are you making any money at that price? My chairs start at 1000.
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post #10 of 15 Old 03-26-2012, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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i know it's not a ton of money, but they are outdoor chairs, and are by no means, fine furniture when being held together with screws and glue. I have templates that i made out of hardboard, for arms, legs, and supports. I can usually crank out an entire set in a weekend of working probably 16-20 hours. I usually charge 500 for an entire set made of pine, materials are about 150. I'm not going to charge a ton of money for something that won't last forever. If i was making fine dining room chairs, i'd be charging a lot more. I am also new to the buisness and am trying to gain clientele.

-Tyler
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post #11 of 15 Old 03-26-2012, 05:53 PM
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Don't use spanish cedar, it has issues with sap that can cause a real problem down the line, and by the way it's neither Spanish or cedar, it belongs to the Mahogany family.
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post #12 of 15 Old 03-26-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tymann09 View Post
i know it's not a ton of money, but they are outdoor chairs, and are by no means, fine furniture when being held together with screws and glue. I have templates that i made out of hardboard, for arms, legs, and supports. I can usually crank out an entire set in a weekend of working probably 16-20 hours. I usually charge 500 for an entire set made of pine, materials are about 150. I'm not going to charge a ton of money for something that won't last forever. If i was making fine dining room chairs, i'd be charging a lot more. I am also new to the buisness and am trying to gain clientele.
So by my calculations you are only making $17-$21 an hour for your time. Way to little. You need to charge more. Value your time.

I just looked at your website. You do amazing work. I hope you are charging accordingly for your other furniture? If not you need to raise your prices.

Last edited by trctimberworks; 03-26-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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post #13 of 15 Old 03-26-2012, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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So by my calculations you are only making $17-$21 an hour for your time. Way to little. You need to charge more. Value your time.

I just looked at your website. You do amazing work. I hope you are charging accordingly for your other furniture? If not you need to raise your prices.
My calculations also got me around that range. i figured for a 20 year old, it wasn't bad since I make $13 an hr in the summer full time as a carpenter. I've been told that I should charge more for my pieces, but I feel i shouldn't due to the fact I have yet to sell a single piece of furniture. I've sold a good number of bowls though. I believe in a piece like the coffee table, which is marked for $1500, I priced accordingly. About $150 for materials and around 40 hrs of labor. It gets me in the neighborhood of $30 an hour. However, the bookcase i made, is a different story. the cost was about $700 in materials, 8/4" walnut is expensive. this was the first real piece of furniture i'd ever done so it took alot longer as i was learning alot. It probably took around 70 hours, if not longer. That gets me about $18/hr. I know my prices are all over the place, but I've yet to sell a piece so, guess I'm just trying things out.

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post #14 of 15 Old 03-26-2012, 10:45 PM
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I like your work, it shows very serious promise. One thing you need to think about though is shop rate. That 17-20$ range you guys calculated? It's wrong. That's what your shop rate is, not your rate. I understand that you may have access to a free shop space right now, but that won't always be the case. You must begin to calculate the price of your work based on your time as well as shop rent, electricity, all shop supplies, new tool purchases, and a % for profit and growth. My shop rate is 100$ an hour, no exceptions. Someone working for me is 65$. A decent place for you to start is 45$/hr.

Now I'm not saying start charging that tomorrow, but you should start figuring it out. When I first started I was all over the place just like you are. Sell one of my own designs? Not for 18 months. So I understand where you are coming from, and you are on the right path. Just know that your name and reputation are forever, and this business is all about word of mouth. Once a client pays 500 for a couple of chairs how do you get them to pay 3000$ for a bookcase? It's a constant balancing act. I would encourage you to consider where you want your career to be in 15 years, now chart a path to that place. As a client I don't need to know that you haven't sold one of your pieces yet (You just sold those chairs so cherry popped anyway,) I just need to know that you can do the job well. It seems that you can, now you just need to find the right clientele. Print out several good quality copies of your portfolio and take them to every interior designer and boutique home store in your area, tell them you can build anything and that this is a sample of your work. When they call price your shop rate at what it should be for your area if you rented a shop and you're off.

Enter every regional show and competition that you can, and cold call your favorite woodworkers asking to come see their shops(when you turn 21 bring a six pack of good beer) or if they need a motivated assistant. Don't listen to naysayers. Be romantic and passionate about your craft. Go to Penland or Haystack for a few weeks. Need a rec. for the app? I'll write you one. Above all else, accept nothing less than perfection in your work. Do these things and there is nothing standing in your way.
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post #15 of 15 Old 03-27-2012, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Tyler, I'm going to assume that's your name. Happens to be mine as well. I've read your comment several times. First, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write that. I value every word you had to say, it is extremely helpful and encouraging to hear that. I actually copied and pasted it into MS word and saved it so I would have it for future reference. I have heard from several others that I should send out my portfolio to interior design companies. Actually, I'm not sure where you were at the time, but about a month or two ago, I actually posted a thread regarding school and whatnot, and the general topic was whether or not to attend college to get a degree. I am actually attending college right now for woodworking, but am having a very very rough go of it. If you're interested in how I got where I am now, check out the other thread I had started. Here is the link http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/wo...iceship-32828/
If you decide to read a bit of that thread, I definitely wouldn't mind hearing your feedback on the matter since everything I posted at the time is still currently an issue. I am still trying to figure out what path to take.
Thanks alot

-Tyler
www.TJGwoodworking.com

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