Did I goof? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Did I goof?

Slowly moving toward the stairway project. The wife and I glued the end pieces to the tread. Titebond III was used with a bit of squeeze-out on some of the five. We wiped the excess glue off with a damp rag. The smear shows as darker than the tread. This raises a question for me. Will the glue smear accept stain? How do I get it off if it affects the stain? Photo shows some of the glue and the smear. We will have to sand down the edge trim as, for some reason, it is a bit higher in the middle after we evened up the front and back. Your help is appreciated as always.
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post #2 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 11:59 AM
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The only way I know to remove the glue is sand it off. It for sure will not stain where there is glue run out.
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post #3 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 12:01 PM
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The glue stain will prevent the wood from staining. It would have been better if had washed the glue off with a rag dripping wet.

From where you are you need to thoroughly sand the treads. Even if you had washed the glue off the water will raise the grain and make the wood stain darker and uneven. It would just take less sanding to make it ready to stain.
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post #4 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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In retrospect, I thought of letting the glue dry and lightly scraping it with a sharp wood chisel. We did wipe with a wet cloth but you see the results. Afraid the glue is deeper than I can sand. Plus the grains at a right angle comes into play.

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post #5 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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FWIW, emailed Titebond with a description of what happened. Waiting to hear. Will share their answer.

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post #6 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineknot_86 View Post
In retrospect, I thought of letting the glue dry and lightly scraping it with a sharp wood chisel. We did wipe with a wet cloth but you see the results. Afraid the glue is deeper than I can sand. Plus the grains at a right angle comes into play.
Sometimes you have to scrub on glue to get it off and sometimes the rag gets full of glue itself. I usually keep a bucket of water handy and rinse the rag often. Glue is a lot easier to wash off than to sand off.
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post #7 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Had a spray bottle of water and an old towel. Evidently I didn't scrub enough. Thanks.

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post #8 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 04:10 PM
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Steve is right about a dripping wet rag. Anything less will only smear the glue.
With a sopping wet rag, little if any water should actually get into the joint itself if the joint was properly made.

In retrospect, if you watched the glue joint closely, in only a few minutes, the glue would congeal before hardening and could have been removed with any sharp cornered object. it would have peeled off in a rubbery like state.

Now that the glue has hardened, I seriously doubt that sandpaper would do much good without further damaging the joint. The glue is harder than the wood and sanding would tend to remove wood from around the joint still leaving the hard glue intact. At this point, I think your only option is a very sharp chisel and a lot of patience.

This is not the best opportunity to learn however, there are touch-up powders and pens. Probably get from Mohawk. The powders need a liquid similar to shellac but the touch-up pens or markers are used directly. Find the closest match to your intended final color and use as directed, making sure that the touch-up stuff is slightly darker than the intended finish. Practice with a scrap piece of wood and then go for it. the surface should be sanded with 220 grit and then 400 grit only in the immediate area of the glue. Use the care and skill of a surgeon to not make the repair beyond the glue area itself.
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post #9 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 05:20 PM
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I tried the Titebond - and went back to Elmers WoodGlue Max.
Titbond dried much darker. I was not happy with the dark glue lines - even when "perfect" - on maple/oaks/poplar.



WoodGlue Max cleans up very well with water and it does take stain. not like wood proper, but with a little extra soak time and careful wiping I have managed to hide a couple boo-boos.
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post #10 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 05:58 PM
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I really like Titebond III, but you have to clean it as said before, some like to let it dry a little and shear it off, I just use a lot of water and clean rags, if you start getting the rag saturated rinse very well and proceed


Yesterday I spend most of the afternoon cleaning the silicone brushes I use to spread the glue, regular Titebond will pull right out of them not III the cup of water I had been soaking them in had dried up and the glue residue off the bottom stuck to the bristles



Would have been faster to just stop back by Dollar Genital I buy more brushes, but gee they cost a buck each LOL

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post #11 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 09:06 PM
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I don't know what your going to stain it with, after you removed as much as the glue as possible, blending in a alcohol dye stain in those areas with a fine point point brush close to your stain can help to hide it
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post #12 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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Haven't heard from TB yet. Basically, I'm screwed. With the grain at a right angle it will be a task to sand both pieces. Mesuggah!

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post #13 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 09:06 AM
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Sand it using an orbital sander, lightly. Just enough to get rif of the glue.
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 10:47 AM
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I agree with Firehawkmph. It looks like it will sand easily with a random orbit sander and fine paper. You can check your sanding with mineral spirits to make sure you removed the smeared/excess glue.

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post #15 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 03:19 PM
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I am not good at glue-ups. I live with my mistakes. That said, I have tried some tricks with varying degrees of success:

* Wipe the clamped and glued joint with a wet paper towel immediately after clamping.
It works, but I stopped doing it when respected woodworkers told me that it would get water into the joint and weaken it as a result. Worse yet, they told me that even a little remaining diluted glue can still cause trouble with staining and finishing. After all that, you have to deal with the raised grain, and may have caused other issues for yourself.

* Wait for the glue to partially harden, then scrape it off "easily" with a sharp tool such as a scraper or chisel.
The problem is timing it just right. Often I find that the glue looks hard and the wait time seems right (say, a couple hours), but then there is a liquid glue core that spills on the project and makes a worse mess. Sometimes the glue gets too hard and does not come off easily, usually in difficult to reach corners, and usually resulting in damage to the project if you attempt to remove the dried glue.

* Carefully tape each side of the joint before gluing. The squeeze-out comes off with the tape.
I tried this with blue tape, but the tape did not come off easily. The glue stuck the tape to the wood. I could try some other kind of tape, like electrical tape, maybe. Whether it works or not, the taping increases the overall glue-up effort.

* Carefully tape or protect the inside of the joint, then finish the rest with a non-stick finish before the glue-up. The squeeze-out won't adhere to the finished areas.
I have not tried this yet.

* Acquire enough experience to get clamping pressure perfectly right.
I can dream. This really comes before getting the amount of glue right. If you get the amount right, but change the clamping pressure, then you may have to adjust the amount of glue. Many (most?) woodworkers apply way too much clamping pressure for common PVA wood glues like Titebond I, II, and III. Most woodworking clamps make it too easy to apply too much clamping pressure.

* Acquire enough experience to know the perfect amount of glue and spread it exactly where needed, to minimize squeeze-out.
I can dream. You don't want to starve the joint, but you don't want to overdo it, either. Perhaps there is a certain zen to glue-ups.
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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In hindsight, which is always 20-20, I thought of pre-drilling the end piece for a finish nail but didn't want the wood putty to show. Should have done this- apply a thin bead of glue, drill, drive the finish nail in part way, clamp and drive the finish nail home. Then countersink the nail, fill and sand when the putty is dry. Much easier and eliminates the problem.
I didn't mention that it was difficult to wipe due to the two clamps.

My concern is the grain of the tread and the end cap are at right angles. Going to take some precision sanding. Thanks to all for your help, suggestions, sympathy.

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post #17 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineknot_86 View Post
Haven't heard from TB yet. Basically, I'm screwed. With the grain at a right angle it will be a task to sand both pieces. Mesuggah!

I've done feet and feet and yards of 3/8 solid banding across grain of (species) veneered ply. it is not uncommon that the joints turn out not perfectly flat and even . . . . which resembles the dippy glue spots in your pix.


using a very sharp chisel I drag the edge "backwards" down the banding to shave off the high spots.
it does not resemble a fast fix. but with patience you can get the banding and the cross grain pieces very flush to each other - to the point that orbital sanding will 'touch/finish' both sides evenly. a spot of hand sanding parallel to the banding grain and you're golden.
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post #18 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Going to tackle it tomorrow and take it slow. Will keep you posted.

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post #19 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 06:50 PM
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Clamps get in the way for everyone when washing glue off. Sometimes you have to remove the clamps and wash the glue off and then put the clamps back on. Maybe more than once.
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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Then the ends would fall off; thought of that.

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