I'm the President & Co-founder of Sawtooth Ideas. I was just made aware of this thread and I wanted to pass along that we are looking into this issue. It is very important to us to avoid facilitating piracy.
However, we just compared the details of your project with that of the poster. We found that the details of the project are sufficiently different between your post and this plan that it is not obvious that one was derived from the other. The results are similar but the construction is documented very differently.
I have asked that the individual take a look at this thread and comment himself.
Please contact me if you have any more information that we should take into account. With the information we currently have, it is not clear that we should remove the project. Do you agree?
I appreciate your prompt attention to this matter. I did end up downloading the plan off the site to "investigate" it further, and saw the differences. I know I didn't invent this idea, and Ralph did a fine job of documenting on how to make that insert. There is no harm here, as far as I am concerned. I gotta say though, that your fast response was very impressive.
It's possible that it was coincidental...maybe not. Even a patent doesn't protect the inventor. Patents can cost up the wazoo. All someone has to do is change the original sightly.
I hear you there Cabinetman... I have investigated the whole patent procedure, and it is more money then I want to spend. Alot of my ideas are "trade-specific," and I don't know exactly what the demand would be, so I don't think my return on investment would be worth it, even with me having working prototypes.
My name is Ralph Bagnall and I am the one selling the Insert Throat Plate Plans on Sawtooth Ideas.
The fine folks at Sawtooth brought this thread to my attention, so I signed up here to respond.
I can easily prove that I did not 'steal' your idea. If you look at the October 2010 issue of Woodworker's Journal magazine, photos for the Envelope Table article I wrote that appears in that issue clearly shows my throat plate being used. That article was published in September 2010, but the photos were actually taken in 2009. Hence, I did NOT steal your idea.
I ALSO am not claiming that the original idea was mine. Norm Abrahms, in the early years of his show "The New Yankee Workshop" used a commercially available version of this insert throat plate. The body was aluminum with wood inserts. I do not recall who made it, but it cost about $200.00 back in the 90's so it did not survive long.
I upgraded the idea using drawer lock bit to create the profiled slot rather than a simple dovetail. The profile is more accurate and resists jamming that can occur in dovetail slots.
I am sorry if you got upset over this issue, but I might caution you that very few ideas are actually original and calling me a troll online without really knowing the facts is rude.
I also might want to point out that if you want to create plans for your own version and sell them, knock yourself out! I own the copyright to those exact plans, not to the idea or any variation of it. My writing and printing plans is no different than the above mentioned Envelope Table article. I did not invent the table and can claim no rights to it, but I DO own the rights to the article as printed and can sue someone who copies it for profit. I cannot however stop you from building your own, and selling plans in your own words using your own images. In fact, I encourage you!
Please feel free to contact me if you have questions on this: [email protected]
If you want to view the Envelope Table mentioned above, you can download a PDF version for free from my website at: http://www.consultingwoodworker.com/published_articles
Thank you for your prompt response to this matter, too. There are distinct differences from your version, and mine, as I have stated above. I did end up downloading your version (which I paid for) to check it out, and you did a really good job of explaining how to make the ZC insert. IF all your plans are that thorough, then you sell a great product that most guys would benefit from, especially the novices. I apologize for calling you a troll, as I have found out that I used the wrong "nickname" for what I was trying to get across. I have to admit that my emotions got the best of me, and many have pointed out that I basically just "reinvented the wheel," yet again.
I hope that you and Russ accept my apologies, and we can move on.
Now, Richard, Thank you for helping bring all of this to light, and really trying to protect our forum. That is awesome that you are taking the time to do a job that is usually thankless, and takes alot of time out of your busy life. Thanks again..... Now, about that wheel that you thought looked like a body part.....
After all this is said and done, I kind of feel embarassed by all of it....