Converting chop saw into a cheap table saw - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 60 Old 06-25-2015, 07:14 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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it is possible to do!

http://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/s...&hsimp=yhs-006
There are numerous examples of circular saws mounted on plywood, under stamped steel tables, etc. It been done. The Makita 16" saw disproves the lack of power from a 15 AMP AC/DC motor like a chop saw would have.
It may not have the power of a 3 HP cabinet saw, but that's not the OP's issue. He can just use it within the power capability it has.
So having said that....naysayers and doomsdayers be damned, just do it, but use all the safety considerations you can and if you need more free advice come back here.
I've done enough machine design to know what I am capable of, but I or we don't know the engineering skills of the OP. I've built a panel saw from a RAS, a radial arm router in a RAS frame etc. it's a matter of figuring things out slowly but surely.
Let's see some photos of your progress....

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #22 of 60 Old 06-26-2015, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the good advice again!

I just put a 10" blade and tried a test cross-cut in a small log with the chop saw. It worked beautifully without a problem. Have ordered a 14" ripping blade and also started making a plywood mount for the saw.

Will report further progress later.
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post #23 of 60 Old 06-26-2015, 11:37 AM
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just for inspiration ....

here's a bowl lathe build thread by a younger member here who despite some naysayers has gone ahead and build a pretty substantial machine:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/bo...-thread-84617/

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #24 of 60 Old 06-26-2015, 11:38 AM
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The other question is the duty cycle of the motor, chop saws do not run continuously, I know from experience that compressor duty motors do not last very long on a table saw when you really put it to work.
Anyway good luck with your project.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #25 of 60 Old 06-26-2015, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
I can garuntee that chop saw motor isn't actually putting out nearly 3hp. On 110vac, 1 hp draws roughly 10 amps, so unless your saw is pulling 30 amps or more, its not that powerful. Universal motors are extremely overrated in the hp department, shop vacs do the same thing
So I guess you don't take the claim of Dewalt DW871 14", 15amp, 5.3Hp chop saw seriously:

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW871-1.../dp/B0000224IZ

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post #26 of 60 Old 06-26-2015, 04:35 PM
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Horsepower

American Manufacturers make false claims regarding the horsepower on power tools.
This is a fact.
About all the horsepower you can get out of a Standard 110 circuit is 2 HP.
If you need more, you need to go to a 220 circuit. If you need still more, you go to 3 phase, etc.
So, how can they get by, selling me a 110 volt 6 1/2 HP shop vac?
I wish I knew the answer. It's gotten truly ridiculous.

Regarding making a table saw out of a chop saw;
You can put a saw blade on the shaft of a washing machine motor, but it's not something most of us would want.
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post #27 of 60 Old 06-26-2015, 04:55 PM
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electric motor HP vs gas engine HP...

They are rated in a different way apparently:
https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2012/04/...-the-universe/

From the article above:
Most motors can put out a lot more maximum horsepower than they can sustain continuously. By forcing more mechanical load on the motor, slowdown is increased and so therefore is the output horsepower. Mechanically, horsepower is torque times rpm, and increasing the mechanical load means that the rpm is slowed slightly and the drag torque is increased to obtain more torque times rpm. Electrically, horsepower is volts times amps, and by conservation of energy, the mechanical output horsepower must be balanced by electrical input horsepower. Since the voltage is relatively constant, this means that as a motor is loaded, the input current increases. But the electrical winding impedance has a resistive component, so that higher current means more power dissipated in the windings. In fact, the motor windings heat up proportional to the square of the motor current. Except for specially designed motors, the current that a motor can sustain continuously without burning out its windings is a fraction of the current at maximum load.”

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post #28 of 60 Old 06-26-2015, 07:08 PM
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Ripping boards on a underpowered tablesaw is pretty dangerous,If you stall the motor in the wood just right it will launch the wood back at you.The energy will be transferd form the motor to the wood.Then you will find out how powerful the motor is.Strong enough to hurt you badly but not enough to rip rough lumber.Think about getting something off craigslist as others have suggested.
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post #29 of 60 Old 06-26-2015, 08:32 PM
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underpowered ....

If you stall the motor will ripping as I have done many times, just turn the thing off. If you stall it, it ain't goin' anywhere....it's stalled by definition. If you stall it your feed rate was excessive or worst case, the wood closed up on the back of the blade and it's bound up .... just turn it off. A good reason to have a splitter.
This is the reason all table saws should have a hip operated ON/OFF switch, essdy to reach witrh your hand otr bump with your hip. All my tables saws have one....just sayin'....


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post #30 of 60 Old 06-26-2015, 08:57 PM
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@woodnthings
Thanks for showing a partial picture of your shop.
Very Nice shop.
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post #31 of 60 Old 06-27-2015, 12:42 AM
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That is a sharp looking setup Woodenthings,hopefully the op will take heed how dangerous table saw can be,I never stalled the blade on my Davis and wells saw nice big 2hp motor.Its those little job site saw that are bad news for the unskilled worker.They just don't have any mass.
I would feel bad if someone got hurt crafting a home made machine that I led them to believe it's no big deal.People do it all the time.
Kinda like that gotta take the bull by the horns attitude. Another dangerous thing to do.
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post #32 of 60 Old 06-27-2015, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
American Manufacturers make false claims regarding the horsepower on power tools.
This is a fact.
About all the horsepower you can get out of a Standard 110 circuit is 2 HP.
If you need more, you need to go to a 220 circuit. If you need still more, you go to 3 phase, etc.
So, how can they get by, selling me a 110 volt 6 1/2 HP shop vac?
I wish I knew the answer. It's gotten truly ridiculous.

Regarding making a table saw out of a chop saw;
You can put a saw blade on the shaft of a washing machine motor, but it's not something most of us would want.
Unfortunately, even German manufacturers make false claims about their power ratings. I had posted an earlier thread regarding Bosch jigsaws, where a newer, supposedly more powerful saw had a poorer cutting performance. The same is true of Bosch chop saws being sold in India. Please check out the following comparison of older GCO 2000 vs. the newer, 'more powerful' GCO 2400 version:

http://www.bosch-pt.co.in/in/en/meta...00-131477.html

The claimed cutting capacity of GCO 2000 is actually greater in square and L-profiles, while being the same as GCO 2400 in rectangular profile!

Woodworking hobby is pretty rare in India, so good table saws are hardly available here. One has to get them imported from USA/Europe/Japan @ high custom duty.

That is why I am looking for a cheaper, homemade version. Hope I have made my requirement clear.

Last edited by Jig_saw; 06-27-2015 at 02:56 AM.
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post #33 of 60 Old 06-27-2015, 04:53 PM
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This saw was mentioned in another thread so I had to take a look at what it was, another concept:
http://www.holzmann-maschinen.at/pro...2t0cjoiqmttic6

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #34 of 60 Old 06-27-2015, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigsaw_lover View Post

Woodworking hobby is pretty rare in India, so good table saws are hardly available here. One has to get them imported from USA/Europe/Japan @ high custom duty.

That is why I am looking for a cheaper, homemade version. Hope I have made my requirement clear.
Thank you for that explanation. That makes it easier for us to understand your need for the conversion. Now that I have a better understanding, why do you need a 14" saw blade?
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post #35 of 60 Old 06-28-2015, 03:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Thank you for that explanation. That makes it easier for us to understand your need for the conversion. Now that I have a better understanding, why do you need a 14" saw blade?
Thanks!

I have procured some lumber consisting of many uneven thick pieces. Trying to cut them with my 7-1/2" and 10" improvised table saws has not worked, so I need a blade with a deeper cut. That is also why I am trying the chop saw conversion. Probably the power will be limited so feeding rate of the logs has to be slow. I have acquired considerable practice with cutting rough lumber freehand on a table mounted circular saw, without a riving knife or splitter.
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post #36 of 60 Old 06-28-2015, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigsaw_lover View Post
Thanks!

. I have acquired considerable practice with cutting rough lumber freehand on a table mounted circular saw, without a riving knife or splitter.
You did not mention using a fence.

Here's some free advice. Do not cut lumber "freehand" on a table saw. It's not like a circular saw. A table saw is designed to ONLY be used with a fence when ripping... it's called a rip fence. IF and WHEN the blade binds because the wood closes on the it or when the edge of the work is not held in contact with the fence it will bind and a kickback will occur.

Only wood that been straightened on a jointer is designed to be place against the fence for this reason. You can use a board straightening jig to make the rough or curved edge straight THEN use it against the fence.

If you want to straight line rip rough lumber.... use a track saw, not a table saw. Instead of making a table saw from your Chop saw, make it into a track saw, and work from above like using a circular saw with a guide. A track saw will follow the "track" or guide, NOT the rough edge of a piece of crooked lumber... no binding, no kickback. It will be much safer!



The track saw won't allow the saw itself to meander or change course, since it's confined in the track, NOT just held against a guide by the operator. It's like a circular saw on rails, and there are larger versions called "rail saws":



The famous lawsuit by an unskilled operator against Ryobi who was ripping flooring freehand on a small table saw and lost some fingers... I don't know all the details, but it cost Ryobi 1.5 million $$$. The jury blamed the saw manufacturer, when it was clearly the faulty of the operator who did not have any of the safety guards on or was not using the fence.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/...blesaw-lawsuit


The issue I see with re-purposing a chop saw it that it will not have a self-retracting blade guard unless you account for that in the design. You will have to be extremely cautious when setting the saw down with the motor/blade still spinning, since it will grab and want to come backwards. There are issues either way... track saw vs table saw. You must be aware of these before making any home grown versions of either.



EDIT: For "freehand" ripping of rough edged wood a bandsaw would be the safest machine or a jigsaw.....

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-28-2015 at 09:08 AM.
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post #37 of 60 Old 06-28-2015, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigsaw_lover View Post
Thanks!

I have procured some lumber consisting of many uneven thick pieces. Trying to cut them with my 7-1/2" and 10" improvised table saws has not worked, so I need a blade with a deeper cut. That is also why I am trying the chop saw conversion. Probably the power will be limited so feeding rate of the logs has to be slow. I have acquired considerable practice with cutting rough lumber freehand on a table mounted circular saw, without a riving knife or splitter.
That is a scary statement, and a very dangerous practice, please think this through and find a safe way of feeding the logs other than freehand.

From what I read now it is more of a mill you are attempting to build than a table saw, you definitely need a carrier of some type for the logs.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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Last edited by FrankC; 06-28-2015 at 10:13 AM.
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post #38 of 60 Old 06-28-2015, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
You did not mention using a fence.

you want to straight line rip rough lumber.... use a track saw, not a table saw. Instead of making a table saw from your Chop saw, make it into a track saw, and work from above like using a circular saw with a guide. A track saw will follow the "track" or guide, NOT the rough edge of a piece of crooked lumber... no binding, no kickback. It will be much safer!


EDIT: For "freehand" ripping of rough edged wood a bandsaw would be the safest machine or a jigsaw.....
Thanks for the excellent advice about the track saw. It certainly sounds much safer than a table mounting, and perhaps may also be easier (provided a guide/track is built first). I am willing to give it a try, although I am not sure at this point how it can be used for ripping lumber.

The rail saw and band saw appear to be more of professional machines, likely to cost a fortune. I have not seen anyone here using them, except in sawmills. Yes, I do use jigsaws for cutting small lengths of straight boards now and then.

I can't use a fence while ripping the logs as their sides are very uneven. I use the fence only when cutting plywood and straight boards.

Thanks again!
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post #39 of 60 Old 06-28-2015, 06:51 PM
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each time you post ....

Everytime you post a reply, the ground rules change. Now it's logs, not lumber a whole 'nother ball game.

You must watch some You tube videos on shop made bandsaws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92u4vg-dr3w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Gdp5255kw


The bandsaw is the time tested and proven way to reduce logs into lumber. Yes, the first sawmills used large circular saws up to 5 ft in diameter, some even larger BUT most owner operated sawmills these days use a bandsaw mill.

It will be difficult if not impossible to convert your chop saw to a bandsaw in my opinion. The concept of a bandsaw is simple, but the execution is complicated with blade guides and bearings and blade tensioning devices and power transfer mechanics.

If you can find a used engine 8 to 20 HP you are along way to getting a start. Wheels can come off scooter, or motor bikes and the bearings would be built in.

A lost finger or worse is not worth saving a few $$ to make something that was not intended for the purpose you have in mind. A track saw will rip lumber easily and give you a clean straight edge BUT it will not reduce logs into lumber safely or if at all. JMO.

Check out this thread:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f26/b...l-build-89017/

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-28-2015 at 06:53 PM.
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post #40 of 60 Old 06-28-2015, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigsaw_lover View Post
Thanks!

I have procured some lumber consisting of many uneven thick pieces. Trying to cut them with my 7-1/2" and 10" improvised table saws has not worked, so I need a blade with a deeper cut. That is also why I am trying the chop saw conversion. Probably the power will be limited so feeding rate of the logs has to be slow. I have acquired considerable practice with cutting rough lumber freehand on a table mounted circular saw, without a riving knife or splitter.
Oh dear sweet lord Jesus, you're wanting to free hand logs on a 14 inch table saw? Mate, turn back now before you lose a finger, at best. A table saw isn't what you need. You're looking for either a bandsaw or a chainsaw with an Alaskan mill setup

I need cheaper hobby
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