Change of plans on shelf mounting maybe too late - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Change of plans on shelf mounting maybe too late

So I built a 3ft wide shelf to mount one side on the wall and support the other on legs. After assembling it, I decided that I don’t want to lag bolt it to the wall and would rather have it hang on a French Cleat only it too late to cut a bevel for the cleat.
The wall is a major plumbing wall for the whole house with all the drain/vent pipes and copper water pipes. Plus it would be nice to be able to remove it when needed.
I used ĺ” plywood for the backing to bolt on to the wall and I’m not so sure of what to do now. I know I cannot run it through the Table Saw at this point, but I might be able to use a router to cut short bevels although the size and shape of it might be unsafe.
Any other tools or technique that I may be able to use?

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post #2 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 01:45 PM
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Can you add another piece of wood at the back that is beveled for the French cleat?
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post #3 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 01:47 PM
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Your not going to help yourself with the french cleat. There is still the strip that has to be screwed to the wall. You might as well just screw the shelf to the wall.
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post #4 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterjer View Post
Can you add another piece of wood at the back that is beveled for the French cleat?
Well I guess I could if I cut the front to make up the differance.

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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Your not going to help yourself with the french cleat. There is still the strip that has to be screwed to the wall. You might as well just screw the shelf to the wall.
Well that's true, but it will not be removable.

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post #5 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 02:27 PM
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My thought is that you can add another French cleat strip of wood below your plywood backing. This could be screwed onto the bottom edge of the plywood backing. I'm not sure why you'd need to cut the front, the cleat can be placed at any height and then the corresponding cleat gets mounted to the wall at the correct height to support the table level.
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post #6 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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My thought is that you can add another French cleat strip of wood below your plywood backing. This could be screwed onto the bottom edge of the plywood backing. I'm not sure why you'd need to cut the front, the cleat can be placed at any height and then the corresponding cleat gets mounted to the wall at the correct height to support the table level.
Oh I thought you were talking about he back. I have to think about that.

Anyway I found these at Home depot that I might be able to use although they are only 20.9 in long and I would need 2 of them.



I also was looking at my router and it looks like it would fit in the corner to make a 45ļ miter, but I will need to buy a Chamfer Router Bit which is about the same price as the 2 Cleats.




.

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post #7 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 03:03 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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why do anything with a router?

A French cleat has 2 pieces, one attached to the wall, bevel up, the other attached to the shelf bevel down. like this:



Just make the 2 pieces with one cut at 45 degrees on the table saw, no router needed.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #8 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
A French cleat has 2 pieces, one attached to the wall, bevel up, the other attached to the shelf bevel down. like this:



Just make the 2 pieces with one cut at 45 degrees on the table saw, no router needed.
As shown by Woodnthings, the cleat will also require a spacer mounted to the back side at the bottom of the legs so the unit hangs level.
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post #9 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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So found a very cheap 45-Degree Chamfer Router Bit that I bought some 20 years ago as a set and have never used. It was a ľĒ shank so I used my old Craftsman router and made a cut.



Itís not a full depth chamfer, but Iím hoping it will work. I might have to fasten a couple of blocks to keep it from coming out or I may have to buy another bit from Home Depot.



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post #10 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 05:00 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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not so.

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Originally Posted by MT Stringer View Post
As shown by Woodnthings, the cleat will also require a spacer mounted to the back side at the bottom of the legs so the unit hangs level.
The shelf doesn't need a spacer since it is just hung on the cleat and supported level by the legs in front. Some math may be required to get the whole thing leveled out. It will just space out 3/4 from the wall, leaving a "gap", unless accounted for with a filler.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #11 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 05:44 PM
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My thinking may be skewed! I was thinking about my cabinets I hung on the wall with French cleats. Without a spacer at the bottom, the cabinet would lean.
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post #12 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 06:29 PM
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it's true for cabinets

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My thinking may be skewed! I was thinking about my cabinets I hung on the wall with French cleats. Without a spacer at the bottom, the cabinet would lean.
Cabinets don't have front legs so they need to be spaced away the 3/4" from the back otherwise they'll hang crooked.

A shelf only a few inches wide at the rear, with front legs to support it, won't have the width for a spacer and secondly won't need one. The legs support the front unlike a cabinet.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #13 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 07:44 PM
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I've benn doing this chit for 40 years 14 of which I owned a custom furniture and cabinet shop building items for multi million dollar homes and you guys are confusing the chit out of me with your overthinking and making things way harder and complicated than they need to be.
Rant over. I still wonder where you come up with all this stuff?
How the hell do you think they hung a shelf on a wall 300 years ago?
Rant over for sure now.Maybe
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post #14 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 08:05 PM
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overthinking, possibly

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Originally Posted by mako1 View Post
I've benn doing this chit for 40 years 14 of which I owned a custom furniture and cabinet shop building items for multi million dollar homes and you guys are confusing the chit out of me with your overthinking and making things way harder and complicated than they need to be.
Rant over. I still wonder where you come up with all this stuff?
How the hell do you think they hung a shelf on a wall 300 years ago?
Rant over for sure now.Maybe
This concept seemed like a simple approach to me rather than the router:
A French cleat has 2 pieces, one attached to the wall, bevel up, the other attached to the shelf bevel down. like this:



Just make the 2 pieces with one cut at 45 degrees on the table saw, no router needed.
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post #15 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mako1 View Post
I've benn doing this chit for 40 years 14 of which I owned a custom furniture and cabinet shop building items for multi million dollar homes and you guys are confusing the chit out of me with your overthinking and making things way harder and complicated than they need to be.
Rant over. I still wonder where you come up with all this stuff?
How the hell do you think they hung a shelf on a wall 300 years ago?
Rant over for sure now.Maybe
I have no idea of what your talking about.
I have a feeling you missed the point of this thread. Its not about French cleats, but rather changing course after the glue has dried and whether or not I should continue with the original plan of bolting to the wall.
Anyway I originally didn't realize that I had as much room as I did to use a router to cut a bevel and now that its done, there's no reason to get into a tizzy

Oh and I didn't have the luxury of cutting a new piece like what Bill was posting so I'll cut one piece with the Table saw and the other was with the router since it was too late to run it through the saw.

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Last edited by Sleeper; 02-23-2015 at 08:12 PM.
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post #16 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 10:17 PM
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I've had more time to think this over....

A simple solution would have been a ledger strip to support the weight and either turn knobs or screwed on "keeper" blocks to hold it in place. ...

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #17 of 18 Old 02-23-2015, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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A simple solution would have been a ledger strip to support the weight and either turn knobs or screwed on "keeper" blocks to hold it in place. ...
Thanks Bill, you know that actually might have been the best idea because Iím a little concerned about the wedging against the gypsum board and I may have to use stronger screws or lag bolts to keep them from prying out of the studs which was what I was originally trying to avoid.

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post #18 of 18 Old 02-24-2015, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Stringer View Post
My thinking may be skewed! I was thinking about my cabinets I hung on the wall with French cleats. Without a spacer at the bottom, the cabinet would lean.
You could also inset the back of the cabinet to allow for the thickness of the cleat. The gables would then sit flush to the wall. No spacer required.

We sometimes make cleated wall panels 96" high where I work. A second cleat closer to the bottom keeps the panel from being able to pull out from the wall at the bottom, and doubles as a spacer to keep it hanging straight.
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