Carpenter Cut - Optimal cutlist diagram for iPad/iPhone - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 40 Old 12-13-2011, 11:03 AM
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as an android and pc user, and hater of mac, this is useless to me. I would like to see an android version though. It would have to be cheap really cheap. like others have said, it is doing something for me that I can easily do myself with a pencil, calculator and a piece of paper, your app can just do it faster.
you say you don't want to give it away for free, but you want free advice on how to make it better? Here is an option, why don't you say first (insert number here) to pm me will get this app for free all you have to do is do a write up and let me and the board know how you like it.
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post #22 of 40 Old 12-13-2011, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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things change...

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Originally Posted by tito5 View Post
as an android and pc user, and hater of mac, this is useless to me. I would like to see an android version though. It would have to be cheap really cheap. like others have said, it is doing something for me that I can easily do myself with a pencil, calculator and a piece of paper, your app can just do it faster.
you say you don't want to give it away for free, but you want free advice on how to make it better? Here is an option, why don't you say first (insert number here) to pm me will get this app for free all you have to do is do a write up and let me and the board know how you like it.
Thanks tito, I started actually doing that with some wood bloggers and now waiting till the new app is out (Carpenter Pro) which has wood grain direction control and display, multiple sheets, plus other usefull features. It is currently under review by Apple and should be out next week, so as soon as it goes out I will generate some promo codes and give it to selected wood bloggers to test and write up about it. I found this method to be more effective in gathering feedback, but don't get me wrong, every one's input here has been also valuable to me.

As for the Android market, I doubt there will be a version out any time soon, mainly due to the fact that you just brought up, that most android market users expect things for free or for next-to-nothing, which makes it hard to justify the development time and effort. However, this is not set in stone, I may reconsider this later on as things progress. Right now I'm just concentrating on the App store market.

By the way, I used to be PC User and a a Mac hater for a long time... actually since back in the 90's, but when you live long enough (for all of you old-timers, 90's is "long enough" in computer age world ), you learn that "things change", so now I've learned to become "open minded"... .
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post #23 of 40 Old 12-16-2011, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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RE: my saw makes straight cuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
not "stopped" cuts. I don't have an I Phone or CNC, so I'm technologically deficient. But on the example below there are a few places where you can't run a straight cut through the workpiece, you need to make a "stopped" cut. That requires a jig saw in my experience, and I don't care how efficiently you use the material, a
"stopped cut" is labor intensive, $$$ and defeats the purpose of that layout . Maybe it's just me, but I want to make through cuts in every situation, cross cutting or ripping ....just sayin'. bill

BTW there needs to be a way to select thin kerf vs full kerf blades which may affect the layout..?
Thanks for your comment above, this is exactly the kind of feedback that would come from an experienced woodworking professional, which is exactly what I'm seeking. In the diagram example you brought up above, you can easily make non-stopped cuts using the sequence of cuts demonstrated below (follow the red cut lines):








However, your comment has just given me an idea of adding edge-to-edge cut sequence animation for each stock sheet after the diagram is shown similar to the above.

I think this would be an important feature that would make this app more useful to woodworkers, so thanks for bringing it up. I will work on adding this feature in the next version of Carpenter Pro, which is by the way, already out in the App Store for those who are interested.

As for the Kerf, you can select only one Kerf value per project. Are you saying that you would normally do different kerf cuts within the same sheet? This will definitely change the layout, but before I make the modifications to the app, is this common a common practice when cutting? i.e. changing saw blade, hence kerf value when cutting stock?

let me know,

Thanks,

P.S. Bill, you have definitely made an excellent point, is there a private way I can send you a free copy of the app to poke around with? Do you have an iOS device? Thanks!

Last edited by SmartCutter; 12-16-2011 at 08:49 AM. Reason: correcting spelling mistakes!
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post #24 of 40 Old 12-21-2011, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Carpenter Pro is out with video

Finally got around to making a demo video for Carpenter Pro:

This is for the iPad Version:


I am also working on getting it reviewed by woodworking bloggers.

Last edited by SmartCutter; 12-21-2011 at 02:00 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes
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post #25 of 40 Old 12-21-2011, 04:16 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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thanks for the offer but

I am still in the 20th century...2 cans, long string and pull hard to talk or listen.

Regarding kerfs, no it's not the norm to change blades unless you wear one out or hit a metal object, so the kerf stays the same.

bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #26 of 40 Old 12-21-2011, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wooddude9 View Post
I would rather waste 2 more sheets of plywood than try to cut up a sheet in that way. Even if I only made $5 hour I dont see the labor versus Mat value. Unless the plywood is $300 sheet. The app needs to work with the most used shop equipment we all have.
+1. I get a real kick out of how dumbed down woodworking is getting. The last thing I want in my hand in the shop is a phone.

Maybe it's just me, but some of the pleasures I get from woodworking is the planning stages and layout. From taking initial measurements, and then using my brain to design and format a three dimensional structure from all the parts I cut, it's rewarding to see it all come together.

Give me a drafting table, tape measure, and a pad and pencil...not apps. For all those that say this is the wave of the future...






.
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post #27 of 40 Old 12-22-2011, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
+1. I get a real kick out of how dumbed down woodworking is getting. The last thing I want in my hand in the shop is a phone.

Maybe it's just me, but some of the pleasures I get from woodworking is the planning stages and layout. From taking initial measurements, and then using my brain to design and format a three dimensional structure from all the parts I cut, it's rewarding to see it all come together.

Give me a drafting table, tape measure, and a pad and pencil...not apps. For all those that say this is the wave of the future...
.
Did I hear you say you wanted a pad? Do you want an "i" with that?

Sorry... couldn't help it

But on a serious note, things do change in this world, and while some enjoy spending the time planning the cuts, I think others may find the ability to do this with a push of a button invaluable, especially in time-constrained projects.

This tool can also be used as a quick stock material cost calculator, and would pay for itself from the first project when the stock material is expensive, like when cutting acrylic for example, or pricey wood stock by saving you scrap that you could have produced otherwise using the manual approach.

My 20 cents (adjusted for inflation)
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post #28 of 40 Old 01-05-2012, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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Lightbulb Would you use Part Label Stickers Feature?

I received this feature request to add the ability to print label stickers for parts so that they can just be stuck to the parts as they are cut from the sheet.

My questions to those of you who make cutlists frequently are:

1. Is this a feature you would like to see in the App? Would it make the cutting job easier for you?

2. What size labels would make sense? Is 2x1 http://www.onlinelabels.com/OL5125.htm good enough? Bigger? Smaller?

3. Would you like to see Part Name & Dimensions shown on the label? Or one of them only?

your votes count...
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post #29 of 40 Old 01-05-2012, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartCutter
As for the Android market, I doubt there will be a version out any time soon, mainly due to the fact that you just brought up, that most android market users expect things for free or for next-to-nothing, which makes it hard to justify the development time and effort.
But hey, everyone knows Mac users will throw money at anything they're told is trendy and/or they can't live without, right?

Avid pc user, iPhone owner, and free app fanatic checking in.
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post #30 of 40 Old 01-05-2012, 10:35 AM
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I think you might need to rethink your market here. If you're marketing an iOS app for woodworking, it's probably going to hit amateurs more than professionals. The 'pros' are more likely to have the pro software or automated setups that they wouldn't care about this. There are quite a few 'amateurs' as well who have PC and printing setups in their shops that can use programs like the free version of Cutlist.

And while the calculator apps and such are nice, I'm more likely to reach for a regular calculator that I can set down on the workbench and not worry about getting dust in the dock port, or worry about a rogue clamp falling on it.

That said, I think there's a market for this sort of thing, but not at the price being asked. A guy like me who's too cheap to run electricity to his shop isn't going to outlay $10 on an app that I can go inside my house, do it on the computer and print it out. You need to market yourself to the guy who's an impulse app shopper, which $10 is nowhere near.

I'd use it. It'd be cool to be out in the shop, or be anywhere, and come up with a plan for what I want to do when I get out there. It'd be nice to be able to pull the phone out of my pocket and check what my next cut will be instead of having to waste the ink and paper well beforehand. I always know where my phone is (it's always on my person), so I'd always know where my plans are.

I have a Touchpad (fire sale, wouldn't own a tablet otherwise), so getting something like this on that isn't going to happen. But I might recommend if you'd like to hit a wider audience also offer a web-based version, perhaps password protected so you can hit the Android tablet and PC/Mac users. I love the tablet in the shop, watching Nahm or Marc build something while I have the tools in my hand can sometimes make the process easier.

Would I use it? For $1.99 it would be a no-questions-asked impulse buy. For $3.99 it might be a maybe. For $9.99, I'll just go inside. Ten purchases at $9.99 brings you the same revenue (should) as 100 at $.99. What you need are reviews, word of mouth, and a high ranking on the category lists.
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post #31 of 40 Old 01-09-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocheseuga View Post
Would I use it? For $1.99 it would be a no-questions-asked impulse buy. For $3.99 it might be a maybe. For $9.99, I'll just go inside. Ten purchases at $9.99 brings you the same revenue (should) as 100 at $.99. What you need are reviews, word of mouth, and a high ranking on the category lists.
+1 on all of that

Fabian

Fabian

I used to be fairly indecisive, but now....... I'm not so sure.
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post #32 of 40 Old 01-12-2012, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocheseuga View Post
I think you might need to rethink your market here. If you're marketing an iOS app for woodworking, it's probably going to hit amateurs more than professionals. The 'pros' are more likely to have the pro software or automated setups that they wouldn't care about this. There are quite a few 'amateurs' as well who have PC and printing setups in their shops that can use programs like the free version of Cutlist.
I might be wrong, but from what I saw in the market, most popular PC-based cutlist programs are in the range of $90-$500 a copy, while Carpenter Pro costs only $15, you only pay for it once to use on any device (iPhone, iPad...) afterwards, and you don't have to allocate space for a PC desk somewhere close to your shop to use it.

There is a lot of convenience in having your cutlist data & engine inside your pocket, not to mention being able to save multiple cutlist projects, so you basically have all your past projects database inside your pocket too. You could be standing in Low's or Home Depot's aisle and have all your cutlist data handy with you.

Oh, and if you don't want to get your iPad/iPhone dirty while in the shop, just use the "Air Print" or "Email" options built-in the app to export your project pdf onto plain A4 paper!
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post #33 of 40 Old 01-23-2012, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Part Labels & Stickers Feature

I just added the Parts lables and stickers feature to Carpenter Pro as an in-app purchase for those who need it. This generates 2x1 barcode size colored stickers for all parts in your cutlist, like the ones shown below.Each label shows part name, dimensions and grain direction. Does any one think this needs additional information on the sticker?


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post #34 of 40 Old 01-23-2012, 01:33 PM
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For those of us who do multiple projects... a job # would be handy.

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OH, wait a minute ............Yep!.............That's what he said!

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post #35 of 40 Old 01-23-2012, 08:20 PM
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The thing I would take into consideration with your app is all the time spent setting and resetting between cross cutting and ripping. If I need 8 parts 5"x7", I want to set the saw to 5" and rip however many strips I need to to get the 8 pieces. The app looks like you would be jumping all over the place. Ripping parts over sized, cross cutting, then ripping them again. It's an efficient plan for material use, but not for labor. There needs to be a balance between the two.
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post #36 of 40 Old 01-23-2012, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Scotty,

There is already a way to save projects (jobs) so I guess I'll add a third line on top to show the project (job) name.

Will work on this in the next version.
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post #37 of 40 Old 01-27-2012, 06:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
The thing I would take into consideration with your app is all the time spent setting and resetting between cross cutting and ripping. If I need 8 parts 5"x7", I want to set the saw to 5" and rip however many strips I need to to get the 8 pieces. The app looks like you would be jumping all over the place. Ripping parts over sized, cross cutting, then ripping them again. It's an efficient plan for material use, but not for labor. There needs to be a balance between the two.
I went ahead and plugged your part dimensions into the app and got the following cutlist diagram:


It looks like all you'll need is one cross-cut at 7" followed by eight rip-cuts at 5" each if you are cutting from a 96" x 48" board. Maybe I understood your comments wrong, but I don't know of a way this be done in less than 2 steps?

If you want, send me your part list to plug in the app and I'll be happy to generate the diagrams for you so you can comment on them.

Last edited by SmartCutter; 01-27-2012 at 07:15 AM.
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post #38 of 40 Old 01-28-2012, 04:33 AM
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To be honest its a great idea especially for an app but I don't see myself using it. If material was outrageously expensive or there was a limited supply of plywood available then I may take longer than the typical few minutes of noggin' scratchin' to figure out the least wasteful way of making cuts.

The thing that is overlooked (which I do enjoy as do most people) is the scrap wood. I usually can always use my scrap wood elsewhere in projects or in the shop over time, so to me its not that important to have leftovers.

The last thing is, I don't know how many people actually have panel saws here, (I do not because of price and all that nor do I really need one right now) but thats really the only safe way to do a 7" cross cut. C'mon!? Crosscut a 4'x8' just to get seven inches? I'd rather do a 5" rip all by myself and then take it to the radial arm and cut them to 7" wide.

Any leftovers will be repurposed and used to make jigs, the suicidal table saw push sticks, jig blocks for metal work or whatever.
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post #39 of 40 Old 01-28-2012, 10:24 AM
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Yes, you misunderstood me. I was referring to your example at the top of this page, which does a lot of jumping back and forth between ripping, cross cutting and re ripping the same piece of wood. What I'm trying to say is that in a working shop, time is money, and efficient use of time is as valuable as efficient use of material. Unless the material in your example is very expensive, I would buy two sheets and end up with more waste than you but, spend less time getting the job done.


Quote:
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I went ahead and plugged your part dimensions into the app and got the following cutlist diagram:

Cutting 8 7"x5" peices from a plywood sheet using Carpenter Pro - YouTube

It looks like all you'll need is one cross-cut at 7" followed by eight rip-cuts at 5" each if you are cutting from a 96" x 48" board. Maybe I understood your comments wrong, but I don't know of a way this be done in less than 2 steps?

If you want, send me your part list to plug in the app and I'll be happy to generate the diagrams for you so you can comment on them.
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post #40 of 40 Old 01-28-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
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The "Floor Finder" you say... hmmmmm..... do you know how many iPhones they had to give up just to test that app? Gees... all of that and you guys are still not happy....
Hey I Ted what have you contribed to this forum other than YOUR app which in my case I dont need it I got a good tape and pencil You not letting anyone test it and you just want them to buy it there is on money back garrentee so take your app and go some where else or start contribiting to the forum dont waste our time

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