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post #1 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 02:20 AM Thread Starter
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Building my first workbench

I am building my first workbench based on plans I found online. I have 2 questions.

1 - the plans call for using 18 gauge staples and glue to fasten the bench top. Is there any difference from using 18 gauge Brad nails and glue?
2 - MDF vs plywood for the top. What are possible pros and cons of the two.


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post #2 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
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For reference here is a link to the plans.
http://eff5c75290b0e498bfcc-cdb2fd2c...l%20update.pdf


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post #3 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 05:01 AM
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The staples or nails are only to hold the pieces together while the glue dries. It should make no difference which you use.

MDF is a little more dimensionally stable than plywood, but it can swell slightly with water-based wood glue. Both should be fine for your build, although IMO a plywood top will be more durable.
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post #4 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 09:30 AM
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We have a workstation with an MDF work surface. It is a metal frame with two drawers, a pegboard, and a rimmed shelf above. We use it as a general purpose workbench. It looks similar to this, but our bottom shelf and workbench shelf are MDF:

https://www.harborfreight.com/48-in-...ght-60723.html

I hate the MDF. It may have been dimensionally stable and flat when we bought it, but over the years the MDF degraded into a lumpy mess, caused by small amounts of water and other liquids that happened to get on the surface. I should point out that we live in Southern California, which has a generally dry climate.

The water came from many uses over the years. Despite being careful to keep it dry, it is still lumpy and not nice to use. Sanding old MDF is an exercise in mess and frustration.

I want to replace it with a plywood top, but my spouse keeps arguing that we won't be keeping it that much longer. The first time we had that discussion was years ago, and it has not gotten any better. The discussion repeats when I get over-frustrated with it. Sometimes I wonder whether it would be better to replace it with plywood and beg forgiveness rather than ask again.

The only good thing I can say about MDF is that it is cheap. In every sense of the word. I know you are building a woodworking workbench, but whatever top you use, make sure it is stable if moisture gets on it.

'Just one person's opinion.
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post #5 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 10:04 AM
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My work table has a 3/4 piece of particle board on it for 18 years. I finally changed to over to a 8/4 hickory butcher block.

Particle board works fine its all about the support it gets from underneath....Bob
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post #6 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses.

If I were to go with a hardwood plywood, is there one that holds up best? Maple, birch, etc

Also how would you fasten the top to the rest of the bench? Screws from top, bottom, glue?


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post #7 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 11:00 AM
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If it has a good platform it ca be glued and screwed. A lot of plywood tends to warp if it can't breath or because it's cheap. A few screws don't hurt to keep it in place or keep it flat...
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post #8 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 02:45 PM
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I haven't worked much with MDF or particle board - simply because I don't like it - so I can't really comment on it because my preference is toward plywood or solid wood (see more below).

I built my combo workbench / assembly table / outfeed area of 2x6 lumber with two layers of 3/4" plywood screwed (not glued) together then screwed to the ends of the 2x6's. I also used a sheet of hardboard for a work surface that can be easily replaced once worn or damaged. My entire unit is of simple construction and it is screwed together without complex joints or adhesive.

For the unit you plan on building, I would recommend screws in lieu of staples / brads and even with glue the bond can be somewhat marginal particularly on the ends and edges of plywood. In regard to the castors on the base, with the construction illustrated, I am not sure I would feel good about the portability of the unit, though it may be okay if left in a stationary position.

My preference for cabinetry and other purposes is generally Baltic Birch, though I obtain my 5x5 sheets locally at a quite reasonable price and quite comparable to the price to the hardwood plywood available at the BORG's and it is much higher quality.

Where are you located? If possible, I would try to find a quality lumber yard where you can often find a higher quality product than available at the big box stores and many times at a better price for what you get.

What are your intended uses for the workbench? I presume a miter saw or such in the middle? There can be a multitude of alternative plans to be found online, though the one you have chosen may be best for your purposes.

I have a couple workbenches that I bought at a yard sale a couple years ago which have a metal frame with a particle board work surface and shelving ( https://www.harborfreight.com/multip...ght-60723.html ). They were in like-new condition and I bought them at a yard sale for $30/each. They have been good for what I use them for in the mechanical / vehicle area of my shop but the shelf on the bottom will sag if much weight is left on it.

I also had a metal frame / particle board shelving unit and while it was rated for 800 lb/shelf (4,000 lb overall), I noticed the particle board soon begin to sag at a fraction of the rated weight - then when I started to remove some of the items to lighten the load, it collapsed into an immediate mess (fortunately most items survived with only minimal loss). I actually bought two of the units at Lowe's and they took both the unit that collapsed and the unit that I had not assembled as a return without any problems even when told that one unit collapsed (I continue to like Lowe's as well as their veterans discount). After looking at shelving from a variety of sources, I chose to instead build a unit out of 2x4 dimensional lumber and plywood.

Previous comments about moisture and particle board are correct and the two do not go together well. I have both a radial arm saw and a B&D workmate that had particle board tops that were damaged by moisture. The RAS had a 1" thick top and after much searching I found a one inch thick 4x8 sheet in a clearance section at Menard's at a dirt cheap price (they don't stock it and i'm not sure where they obtained it) but it can make for a sturdy and flat top - when well supported. I haven't replace the workmate top and will likely use plywood when I do (likely Baltic Birch).
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post #9 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleRidge View Post
I haven't worked much with MDF or particle board - simply because I don't like it - so I can't really comment on it because my preference is toward plywood or solid wood (see more below).

I built my combo workbench / assembly table / outfeed area of 2x6 lumber with two layers of 3/4" plywood screwed (not glued) together then screwed to the ends of the 2x6's. I also used a sheet of hardboard for a work surface that can be easily replaced once worn or damaged. My entire unit is of simple construction and it is screwed together without complex joints or adhesive.

For the unit you plan on building, I would recommend screws in lieu of staples / brads and even with glue the bond can be somewhat marginal particularly on the ends and edges of plywood. In regard to the castors on the base, with the construction illustrated, I am not sure I would feel good about the portability of the unit, though it may be okay if left in a stationary position.

My preference for cabinetry and other purposes is generally Baltic Birch, though I obtain my 5x5 sheets locally at a quite reasonable price and quite comparable to the price to the hardwood plywood available at the BORG's and it is much higher quality.

Where are you located? If possible, I would try to find a quality lumber yard where you can often find a higher quality product than available at the big box stores and many times at a better price for what you get.

What are your intended uses for the workbench? I presume a miter saw or such in the middle? There can be a multitude of alternative plans to be found online, though the one you have chosen may be best for your purposes.

I have a couple workbenches that I bought at a yard sale a couple years ago which have a metal frame with a particle board work surface and shelving ( https://www.harborfreight.com/multip...ght-60723.html ). They were in like-new condition and I bought them at a yard sale for $30/each. They have been good for what I use them for in the mechanical / vehicle area of my shop but the shelf on the bottom will sag if much weight is left on it.

I also had a metal frame / particle board shelving unit and while it was rated for 800 lb/shelf (4,000 lb overall), I noticed the particle board soon begin to sag at a fraction of the rated weight - then when I started to remove some of the items to lighten the load, it collapsed into an immediate mess (fortunately most items survived with only minimal loss). I actually bought two of the units at Lowe's and they took both the unit that collapsed and the unit that I had not assembled as a return without any problems even when told that one unit collapsed (I continue to like Lowe's as well as their veterans discount). After looking at shelving from a variety of sources, I chose to instead build a unit out of 2x4 dimensional lumber and plywood.

Previous comments about moisture and particle board are correct and the two do not go together well. I have both a radial arm saw and a B&D workmate that had particle board tops that were damaged by moisture. The RAS had a 1" thick top and after much searching I found a one inch thick 4x8 sheet in a clearance section at Menard's at a dirt cheap price (they don't stock it and i'm not sure where they obtained it) but it can make for a sturdy and flat top - when well supported. I haven't replace the workmate top and will likely use plywood when I do (likely Baltic Birch).
I disagree....
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post #10 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleRidge View Post
I haven't worked much with MDF or particle board - simply because I don't like it - so I can't really comment on it because my preference is toward plywood or solid wood (see more below).



I built my combo workbench / assembly table / outfeed area of 2x6 lumber with two layers of 3/4" plywood screwed (not glued) together then screwed to the ends of the 2x6's. I also used a sheet of hardboard for a work surface that can be easily replaced once worn or damaged. My entire unit is of simple construction and it is screwed together without complex joints or adhesive.



For the unit you plan on building, I would recommend screws in lieu of staples / brads and even with glue the bond can be somewhat marginal particularly on the ends and edges of plywood. In regard to the castors on the base, with the construction illustrated, I am not sure I would feel good about the portability of the unit, though it may be okay if left in a stationary position.



My preference for cabinetry and other purposes is generally Baltic Birch, though I obtain my 5x5 sheets locally at a quite reasonable price and quite comparable to the price to the hardwood plywood available at the BORG's and it is much higher quality.



Where are you located? If possible, I would try to find a quality lumber yard where you can often find a higher quality product than available at the big box stores and many times at a better price for what you get.



What are your intended uses for the workbench? I presume a miter saw or such in the middle? There can be a multitude of alternative plans to be found online, though the one you have chosen may be best for your purposes.



I have a couple workbenches that I bought at a yard sale a couple years ago which have a metal frame with a particle board work surface and shelving ( https://www.harborfreight.com/multip...ght-60723.html ). They were in like-new condition and I bought them at a yard sale for $30/each. They have been good for what I use them for in the mechanical / vehicle area of my shop but the shelf on the bottom will sag if much weight is left on it.



I also had a metal frame / particle board shelving unit and while it was rated for 800 lb/shelf (4,000 lb overall), I noticed the particle board soon begin to sag at a fraction of the rated weight - then when I started to remove some of the items to lighten the load, it collapsed into an immediate mess (fortunately most items survived with only minimal loss). I actually bought two of the units at Lowe's and they took both the unit that collapsed and the unit that I had not assembled as a return without any problems even when told that one unit collapsed (I continue to like Lowe's as well as their veterans discount). After looking at shelving from a variety of sources, I chose to instead build a unit out of 2x4 dimensional lumber and plywood.



Previous comments about moisture and particle board are correct and the two do not go together well. I have both a radial arm saw and a B&D workmate that had particle board tops that were damaged by moisture. The RAS had a 1" thick top and after much searching I found a one inch thick 4x8 sheet in a clearance section at Menard's at a dirt cheap price (they don't stock it and i'm not sure where they obtained it) but it can make for a sturdy and flat top - when well supported. I haven't replace the workmate top and will likely use plywood when I do (likely Baltic Birch).

Sounds like there are multiple ways to do the top and see people have different likes and dislikes when it comes to the wood they work with. I would consider myself a beginner due to lack of experience working with different types of woods and joints. I have made multiple cutting boards, a outdoor table and a number of other things but still have lots to learn.

I am in Las Vegas and we have a few good lumber yards that mostly have different plywood and lots of exotic wood. Havenít looked too much into different places.

I donít have a dedicated shop or would look at something different. It is just a two car garage that normally has two cars in it. I like the carts so I can store them away or pull out use as both assembly table and space for some Benchtop machines (jointer, planer, and router table) rather than using a sheet of wood and sawhorses.

I appreciate everyoneís thoughts


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post #11 of 28 Old 01-05-2020, 10:25 PM
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All I have is a 600 sq ft two car garage. I've worked for cabinet residential/ commercial and furniture companies ranging in small up to 200,000 sq ft. My shop is now home and I enjoy it. Its acclimated all year around...Just me and I can always rent storage to do kitchen cabinets again. I tend to be forgetful as I only go downstairs each day now...
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post #12 of 28 Old 01-06-2020, 08:48 AM
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Just do it ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
I want to replace it with a plywood top, but my spouse keeps arguing that we won't be keeping it that much longer. The first time we had that discussion was years ago, and it has not gotten any better. The discussion repeats when I get over-frustrated with it. Sometimes I wonder whether it would be better to replace it with plywood and beg forgiveness rather than ask again.
I don't want your wife catching the next plane to my house, but I think that you should just invest a few bucks and get it done. It's necessary to keep the bench functional. Don't show weakness. Don't beg forgiveness. Just do it, toss in some coffee and oil stains and a few good whacks with a hammer to disguise it's age.
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post #13 of 28 Old 01-06-2020, 12:22 PM
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It's a wok surface... right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Meyer View Post
Thanks for the responses.

If I were to go with a hardwood plywood, is there one that holds up best? Maple, birch, etc

Also how would you fasten the top to the rest of the bench? Screws from top, bottom, glue?


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Hardwood plywood is too "pretty' for a work surface, unless you are a surgeon. I use particle board with a poured on and wiped around shellac coating. Shellac "renews" itself with each application, so recoating almost brings it back to new again. It also is easy to knock off the glues drips because they can't soak into it. My top just sits on a torsion box made of the same 3/4" thick material and it doesn't move around because of it's length, 10 ft and weight. You could use a few screws to keep it in place. Or a dab of silicone here and there.
I have flipped it over one time in about 8 years to refresh the surface, but it wasn't a necessity, just a preference. I do use a Stanley knife occasionally to cut cardboard and that leaves some scratches/cuts which are filled with the next shellac application.




It's also my outfeed and assembly table:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 28 Old 01-06-2020, 12:51 PM
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Johnsons pate wax will do the same thing on a work surface. Wipe on, wipe off ....Bob
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post #15 of 28 Old 01-06-2020, 02:38 PM
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A good way to laminate sheet goods is with screws (lots of screws). Put them in from the bottom, remove after the glue is dry. Subsequent layers can be added the same way. Regular wood glue spread with a paint roller will give uniform coverage.

You can't rely on ply or MDF to be completely flat. You can set up some sawhorses and span with straight, jointed 2x4's use string and shim to bring into plane. Assemble the top on this upside down, clamp to 2x4's before you screw.

The only issue I see with plywood is the veneer is relatively thin this may or may not be an issue depending on how you use your bench.

3 layers of either 3/4 ply or MDF will make a dense, workbench or assembly top. MDF is much more uniform but can present some issues if used as the top, the main one being water does not play well with MDF.

Apply 3 coats of 50/50 boiled linseed oil/mineral spirits. When completely dry, you can coat with polyurethane if desired. Once or twice a year, I scrape, sand and coat with fresh poly. A little wax now and then and dried glue will pop right off.

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post #16 of 28 Old 01-06-2020, 06:28 PM
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If I was going to use anything except Real Wood for a bench top I think I might be inclined to use 3/4 in. high-density fiberboard (aka: "hardboard") and seal it.

I've a battery box I built probably 40 years ago made of 1/2 in. glued & screwed HDF. Upon the recommendation of the in-house woodworker where I worked at the time I saturated it with a 50/50 mix of linseed oil and mineral spirits. Probably a half-dozen applications so heavy they'd pool. Then I painted it with an oil-based enamel paint.

Other than being a bit dirty from having been kicked around for 40 years, all that time being in unheated, uninsulated garages, sitting on bare concrete floors, the thing has all the integrity it had on the day I finished it. I've often considered filling it with water just to see what would happen :)

HDF is murder on edged tools, though.

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -- John Ruskin (1819-1900)

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post #17 of 28 Old 01-06-2020, 07:14 PM
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I built my work bench tops out of 2x4s.
They're pretty stable and solid.

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post #18 of 28 Old 01-07-2020, 12:47 AM
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A workbench simply needs to be stable, flat and functional, so whatever you chose, if it meets your needs, GREAT. I simply made a 2X6 torsion box and screwed down a flat solid core door which was being thrown out at a construction site. Plywood could be substituted. I incorporated T-tracks into the final layer of my bench for multiple uses, but I placed strips of 1/4" thick pine under the tracks to raise them. I then added a 1/2 thick hardboard around the T-tracks to the surface of the bench was even with the height of the T-tracks. Too top off the bench, I added a 1/4" hardboard which raised the bench surface 1/4" above the tracks. When I damage the surface, I can replace the whole for about $10, or a section of it (Be sure to countersink the screws.
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post #19 of 28 Old 01-07-2020, 10:18 AM
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My primary workbench in my shop is topped with solid wood, yet it was pretty inexpensive, probably less than a good sheet of plywood. I used ordinary pine 1" x 3"s and glued them face to face to get up to my table top width.

Note - I did this in two steps, as I could not run the full width of the finished table through a planer/big belt sander to smooth it all in one piece. So I kept it in two pieces, so each one could fit through a planer, and then joined it carefully so I had a smooth surface and then lightly sanded the very slight ridge. Voila - one contiguous table top.

There were a few noogies in the cheap 1" x 3"s that needed to be dealt with. The small ones I just filled with glue and let it dry before sealing it. The larger ones, I used a router and made a little "box" that I then filled with wood and glued in place, let it dry and then sanded it smooth. This produced a super solid, yet inexpensive, impervious to moisture work surface.

This bench is about 20 years old now and every few years I sand it off and reapply some varnish...it's rock solid and something that one of my boys will inherit someday.
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post #20 of 28 Old 01-07-2020, 11:01 AM
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You really only need a torsion box if you have a long span or breaking ot down from time to time . If it's boled Toma substrate as can't warp it will be fine if it isnt...Bob
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