Belt Sander issues??? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 2Likes
  • 2 Post By woodnthings
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 Old 11-17-2017, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
Life Long Beginner
 
VB Woodworker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia Beach VA
Posts: 28
View VB Woodworker's Photo Album My Photos
Belt Sander issues???

Can someone tell me what the hell I am doing wrong! I have gone through 3 belts in as many weeks. I am not forcing the sander, there is not any direction arrows for install, it will run fine then it will start thumping when the seam comes across then it will eat the belt. They are Gator Brand "Gator Power" belts.

https://mobileimages.lowes.com/produ...2354070113.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sanding belt.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	85.7 KB
ID:	324866  


Eric F.
Virginia Beach VA
VB Woodworker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 11-17-2017, 04:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,992
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
If there is no arrow then it doesn't matter which way the belts are put on the sander. If you are using a too fine a grit and putting a lot of pressure on the sander you can heat the belt up enough to affect the seam. Sanding belts are like any other sanding, you start with coarse and work your way to fine. With a belt sander unless it's a cheap lightweight sander you pretty much use the weight of the sander do the work. Check the bottom plate on the sander. If there is any lumps or tears in the metal plate that can cause that. It could be the belts are just poorly made.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 11-17-2017, 04:46 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,737
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
the belts are old ...

They have lost the flexibilty in the seam. It's a common issue especially with hand held sanders. You buy several at a time, then store them, them go to use them and they fly apart. Just try some new ones and I'll bet they work just fine.
GeorgeC and Catpower like this.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old 11-17-2017, 05:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 11,747
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
They have lost the flexibilty in the seam. It's a common issue especially with hand held sanders. You buy several at a time, then store them, them go to use them and they fly apart. Just try some new ones and I'll bet they work just fine.
+1

Very common.

George

Last edited by Steve Neul; 11-17-2017 at 07:29 PM. Reason: typo
GeorgeC is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 11-17-2017, 05:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Catpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Frognot Texas
Posts: 2,157
View Catpower's Photo Album My Photos
Woodenthings is right they have a shelf life, and as always woodworkers are like Boy Scouts always prepared unfortunately the glue on the tape that hols the belts together weren't scouts LOL

But there is a fix CA glue and Tyvek envelopes I do use the black flexible CA glue, not sure if it really makes them better though

Get two pieces of wood as wide as the belt, cover the wood with waxed paper, apply glue about an inch on each end of the belt lay a strip of Tyvek over the glue and put the other piece of wood covered with waxed paper on top and clamp,spring clamps work fine

But make sure the belt is straight just align it with the edges of the boards

Let it set for an hour of so, some people let it set over night but it works in about an hour too

There is a place in Canada that sells some micro cloth but it is pretty steep, I think it is Bigfoot or something like that
Catpower is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 11-17-2017, 09:03 PM
Ole Woodworker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 4,209
View BigJim's Photo Album My Photos
I have noticed when I store my belts in an area that has moisture or humidity problems the belts will come apart like that.

http://www.diychatroom.com/
The Other
BigJim

If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.
BigJim is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 11-17-2017, 09:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,992
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Maybe you guys should start using Mirka sanding belts. I keep mine outdoors under an awning. I have another box in my work truck. Some of these belts are more than a year old and I don't have any coming apart.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 08:20 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 115
View kentucky tom's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Maybe you guys should start using Mirka sanding belts. I keep mine outdoors under an awning. I have another box in my work truck. Some of these belts are more than a year old and I don't have any coming apart.
Try different brands , make sure the belt direction is proper. Kentucky Tom

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
kentucky tom is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 09:57 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 4,232
View Toolman50's Photo Album My Photos
I have found sanding belts have a shelf life. I bought a bunch of Bosch belts (several year supply) and wound up throwing out more than half. All broke at the seam after only two minutes of use. I now only buy belts when needed.
The broken belts are great for block sanding and hand sanding by the way.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
Toolman50 is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 11:08 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,553
View Quickstep's Photo Album My Photos
I generally only use a belt sander for rapid stock removal with grits of 60 or below. By the time I get to 80 grit, I usually switch to a random orbit sander.

Finer grit belts, combined with a short belt can build a lot of heat causing the seam to fail. If the belts are not high quality, they wear more quickly, become less effective, generate more heat and so on and so on.
Quickstep is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 11:55 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,737
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
This a complex issue because ....

We aren't using the correct terms here.

None of the belts are "glued" together. HUH? Nor are they fastened with adhesives. WATH? They are 'bonded" using heat and pressure and the manufacturer won't disclose their process because they've spent $$$ and years perfecting it.

There are after the fact fixes all over the net:
https://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/...?topic=50271.0
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...lt-sander-belt
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...-Belt-Adhesive

Some posts deny it can even be done. :frown2: Someone suggested duct tape. Red Green would be pleased. A DIY shop fix would sure be great.

With today's advancement in fastening plastics and space age adhesives, I'm sure there is a method that will work .... even Catpower has done it successfully using a black super glue. Maybe more info on that product is forthcoming...?

I have a theory on why a "fix" is so difficult. At the factory, the fabric/cloth backing is still porous, so when the heated bonding agent is applied with pressure, it forces it into the backer and joining strip.
When the strip has comes free, it leaves behind a thin layer of the bonding agent which is difficult for any other glue or adhesive to attach to. Just like trying to reglue a previously glued piece of wood, it won't adhere.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 11-18-2017 at 12:21 PM.
woodnthings is online now  
post #12 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 01:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,992
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Yes they use heat to bond the belts but that is probably used to accelerate the drying time of the adhesive they use. It's like you can put a strip of veneer on the edge of plywood with wood glue and use a hot iron to immediately dry it.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 02:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 5,173
View FrankC's Photo Album My Photos
Even without an arrow there is a direction to run the belts, looking at your photo the one on the left should be run with the top surface running to the bottom of the photo, the one on the right is opposite.

Try examining the joints, the top edge of the joint should be the trailing edge, may help, maybe not with other factors taken into consideration such as age, storage, etc.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

FrankC
http://sawdustmaking.com
http://woodworkerglossary.com
FrankC is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 02:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Catpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Frognot Texas
Posts: 2,157
View Catpower's Photo Album My Photos
Most of the belts I get have the arrow pointing in either direction, back when they would half lap the cloth direction was more important

When I use the tyvek repair I make the "tape" 2 inches wide so I get on fresh cloth, it works pretty good
Catpower is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 04:16 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 25,737
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
glue doesn't need heat to set up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Yes they use heat to bond the belts but that is probably used to accelerate the drying time of the adhesive they use. It's like you can put a strip of veneer on the edge of plywood with wood glue and use a hot iron to immediately dry it.
They don't use a glue, rather a special bonding adhesive. The adhesive requires heat and pressure to bond to the backing.

You can get it here:
http://www.adktapes.com/products.html

Their link states:
Adirondack utilizes a unique thermosetting adhesive when coating all of their splicing tapes. Adhesive deposit is controlled using state of the art precision measuring devices to guarantee a consistent adhesive lay down. This allows users the ability to control joint thickness more closely, as well as, realizing manufacturing efficiencies.

Adirondack manufactures and distributes a family of urethane adhesives that are used with cross-linking agents to achieve optimum properties and end results.

These cross-linking agents are either solvent based or 100% reactive liquid isocyanates containing prepolymers or adducts which react with the hydroxy functionality in the adhesive. In either case, the reaction product is a polyurethane polymer. In addition, isocyanate terminated materials react with moisture to form urea linkages.

This is beyond the scope of most woodworkers who are most familiar with glues rather than the space age stuff in use today.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is online now  
post #16 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 07:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,992
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
They don't use a glue, rather a special bonding adhesive. The adhesive requires heat and pressure to bond to the backing.

You can get it here:
http://www.adktapes.com/products.html

Their link states:
Adirondack utilizes a unique thermosetting adhesive when coating all of their splicing tapes. Adhesive deposit is controlled using state of the art precision measuring devices to guarantee a consistent adhesive lay down. This allows users the ability to control joint thickness more closely, as well as, realizing manufacturing efficiencies.

Adirondack manufactures and distributes a family of urethane adhesives that are used with cross-linking agents to achieve optimum properties and end results.

These cross-linking agents are either solvent based or 100% reactive liquid isocyanates containing prepolymers or adducts which react with the hydroxy functionality in the adhesive. In either case, the reaction product is a polyurethane polymer. In addition, isocyanate terminated materials react with moisture to form urea linkages.

This is beyond the scope of most woodworkers who are most familiar with glues rather than the space age stuff in use today.
Maybe not all brands. I've had some get wet and come apart and the seam felt sticky so I clamped them back together. The seam held but the grit came off the belt.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 11-18-2017, 08:47 PM
Senior Member
 
nywoodwizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lindenhurst,NY
Posts: 201
View nywoodwizard's Photo Album My Photos
Maybe I'm an exception to the issue but with my current sander, Makita 3x24, 20 + years old, I've never had a belt tear off. Using both good & cheap belts.

Common issue for some sanders is dirty tracking mechanisms/wheels. Sander itself can cause the tears. Every once in a while I clean the rubber wheel with a very fine pad while spinning without a belt (remove the slick shine) and blow all dirt & debri out of the sander. Take care of your tool & it will take care of you.

"You must become one with the wood grass hopper"
nywoodwizard is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advice Needed- Drum Sander or Belt Sander clschaffer Power Tools & Machinery 5 07-04-2017 04:48 PM
Belt Sander comparison ixt Power Tools & Machinery 10 04-05-2017 11:51 AM
Replace conveyor belt on Jet 10-20 drum sander ChuckBarnett Power Tools & Machinery 1 06-25-2016 10:53 AM
Help! Belt tracking on Jet JSG‑96 Benchtop Belt/Disc Sander JimGnitecki Power Tools & Machinery 6 05-17-2016 06:10 PM
Help! Belt sander is not sanding flat! Tempus Fugit Hand Tools 12 10-20-2015 07:44 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome