Bad habits with underpowered saws? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 12-27-2019, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Bad habits with underpowered saws?

For the past 3 years, I've worked with a Dewalt contractor saw. I just pulled the trigger on the G1023RLW (the Grizzly 3HP saw with extension table), and I'm worried that my past experience with the relatively underpowered Dewalt will have caused me to pick up bad habits that could be very dangerous with a genuine cabinet saw.

In your experience, are there any habits that woodworkers tend to get with contractor saws, that are dangerous when paired with a more powerful saw? The biggest thing I can think of is kickback, which I imagine is going to be a lot more intense when there's 3HP behind the blade, but I'm sure there are other things that are just as dangerous. Any tips?

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post #2 of 21 Old 12-27-2019, 10:59 AM
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Is working withing a tools capability a bad habit or actually a good skill or habit?


Congratulations on your new saw.
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post #3 of 21 Old 12-27-2019, 11:30 AM
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Yes, kickback will be greater, so .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackman View Post
For the past 3 years, I've worked with a Dewalt contractor saw. I just pulled the trigger on the G1023RLW (the Grizzly 3HP saw with extension table), and I'm worried that my past experience with the relatively underpowered Dewalt will have caused me to pick up bad habits that could be very dangerous with a genuine cabinet saw.

In your experience, are there any habits that woodworkers tend to get with contractor saws, that are dangerous when paired with a more powerful saw? The biggest thing I can think of is kickback, which I imagine is going to be a lot more intense when there's 3HP behind the blade, but I'm sure there are other things that are just as dangerous. Any tips?

Avoid kickback in the first place by understanding what causes it!
I have some favorite You Tubes on how and why it happens:







http://www.raygirling.com/kickback.htm


http://www.waterfront-woods.com/ TABLESAW TECHNIQUES



Use your riving knife at all times when ripping!

Use only straight and flat workpieces against the fence and on the table!


Maintain your workpiece constantly along the fence until the pass is complete!

Use a PUSH BLOCK, rather than a push stick, which allows you to exert down pressure as wells as forward feed pressure.

Prepare to shut off the saw with a paddle safety switch you can bump with your leg/hip!

If you watch these and read the 2 articles you will be fine! Good Luck!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-27-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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post #4 of 21 Old 12-27-2019, 12:42 PM
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Good table saw habits are the same regardless of the horsepower of the saws.

I have three table saws. A 3 hp cabinet saw, a 1.75 hp hybrid saw, and a job site saw. I use the 3 hp saw most often and feel as safe as or safer than when using my other saws. It is just built better.

I feel least safe using the job site saw. The cheapness of construction, the thin kerf blade, a fence that doesn’t always align properly, and the small table surface all detract from the experience. I hate when I have to use it.
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post #5 of 21 Old 12-27-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Q View Post
Good table saw habits are the same regardless of the horsepower of the saws.

I have three table saws. A 3 hp cabinet saw, a 1.75 hp hybrid saw, and a job site saw. I use the 3 hp saw most often and feel as safe as or safer than when using my other saws. It is just built better.

I feel least safe using the job site saw. The cheapness of construction, the thin kerf blade, a fence that doesn’t always align properly, and the small table surface all detract from the experience. I hate when I have to use it.

Very true!!!



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post #6 of 21 Old 12-27-2019, 02:10 PM
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If anything, wouldn't a weak saw instill better habits? It seems it would reinforce the need to keep a straight and sharp blade, not force wood through the blade, and whatever else to minimize binding and kickback.
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post #7 of 21 Old 12-27-2019, 06:55 PM
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I'm in the same camp as the new bigger saw is actually safer. If you survived a jobsite saw, everything else is safer and better.
It's going from a quality saw to a jobsite saw is where there would be a problem with safety.

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post #8 of 21 Old 12-27-2019, 08:21 PM
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When most people use a contractors saw I think they just unpack, adjust, and saw. Not that it is dangerous, but to get the most out of your cabinet saw be patient in the setup. The table is squared to the blade by actually moving the table. I recommend using a dial indicator on a sled and square up your blade. You want it dead on. Do the same to your fence with that being dead parallel to .002" open to the rear of the blade. Finally I would invest in a very good blade. I recommend Forrest Manufacturing's Woodworker II. It will set you back a few pennies, but is well worth the investment. Once your done you can take your time and make a good crosscut sled that will put your radial arm saw out of business. https://www.forrestblades.com/woodwo...or-table-saws/
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post #9 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 05:47 AM
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The most important thing about tablesaws is that you feed with "authority". If you hold your stock tentatively...if you let the saw take control away from you...if you're afraid something will go wrong...It will go wrong.
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post #10 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeOpossum74 View Post
If anything, wouldn't a weak saw instill better habits? It seems it would reinforce the need to keep a straight and sharp blade, not force wood through the blade, and whatever else to minimize binding and kickback.

Yes, you are exactly correct.


George
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post #11 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeOpossum74 View Post
If anything, wouldn't a weak saw instill better habits? It seems it would reinforce the need to keep a straight and sharp blade, not force wood through the blade, and whatever else to minimize binding and kickback.
I'm with George. You are 100% correct

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post #12 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 09:12 AM
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OK I just have a need to help. SO my advice is that I trade you my DeWalt Contractor saw that is far from underpowered and you just re-route the shipment of the Grizzly Cabinet saw out here to Michigan. No matter what size table saw you need to be careful. Send that saw my way Mack! I will take on any added risk!!!
Tom
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post #13 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 09:15 AM
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BE IN CONTROL!!! It is like when guys marry we give up too much control. When you start that table saw up - forget that you are married! Own the saw- be the boss - and do not question your judgement. When the job is done shift back to the normal mode ...Best way to get good shop gifts...
TRedd
Rights lost 38 yrs ago....
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post #14 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 09:19 AM
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Dude,,,way wrong on us contractor saw people..I use mine for space issues. It is in an est. spot in my shop. Leveled out perfect, blade and all squared and it can cut as well as any cabinet saw. Full dust collection in place (Griz 860). Top grade blades.

Do not pick on us "Still have a contractor saw" kinda guys...someday I will have SawsAll for more safety..
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post #15 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 09:42 AM
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I can't think of any "bad habits" that would develop other than a bogged blade tending to raise a piece of wood. I know from experience that underpowered table saws are more dangerous.


Kickback can be a bad experience regardless of HP, the usual safety precautions apply.


I think safety is a combination of respect, confidence, and experience when operation any ww'ing machine.
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post #16 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider351 View Post
Dude,,,way wrong on us contractor saw people..I use mine for space issues. It is in an est. spot in my shop. Leveled out perfect, blade and all squared and it can cut as well as any cabinet saw. Full dust collection in place (Griz 860). Top grade blades.

Do not pick on us "Still have a contractor saw" kinda guys...someday I will have SawsAll for more safety..
I agree. Tools are only as good and as safe as your ability to make them so.
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post #17 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 02:47 PM
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I have to say, I was left with the impression that now that the OP has his new cabinet saw on the way anyone with less saw is now the unwashed with all kinds of bad habits.
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post #18 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 04:37 PM
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I can stall my Craftsman 12" table saw ......

I think it's rated around 3 HP ...... but I have stalled it by "over feeding it. I then have to quickly shut it OFF with knee or leg bump because I have both hands and both eyes on the workpiece keeping it in place. If I let go with either hand it will kickback. I'm not saying it's "underpowered" because I don't really know the rating. It about 8 to 10 AMPs at 230 volts.



Switching saws to my Powermatic 5 HP, I would never be able to do this, it would just keep on cuttin' ...... BUT I'd be scared out of my shorts until it was over. The very first cut I made on this new saw years ago was in a scrap piece of "knaughty" Pine and it exploded around me. I may not have had the splitter in because at that time I was "splitter ignorant" and didn't know what the hell they did or why they did it. Now I know better. A bad habit "cured".


I ain't about to rip anything these days without a splitter. I have broken this rule, but only on very rare occasions. I keep the work really snug against the fence for the entire pass. I've seen the guy on You Tube who promotes a short fence as a safety concept..... I wouldn't have one myself. If the workpiece rotates over to the left at all and rides up over the blade, you can kiss your belly button good bye, if you can bend over afterwards.


Not a good idea in my opinion:




This is why a long fence works better:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-28-2019 at 05:53 PM.
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post #19 of 21 Old 12-28-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider351 View Post
Dude,,,way wrong on us contractor saw people..I use mine for space issues. It is in an est. spot in my shop. Leveled out perfect, blade and all squared and it can cut as well as any cabinet saw. Full dust collection in place (Griz 860). Top grade blades.

Do not pick on us "Still have a contractor saw" kinda guys...someday I will have SawsAll for more safety..
It isn't always true.

One important reason that I bought the SawStop cabinet saw (PCS 175) over the SawStop contractor saw is that the cabinet saw is smaller than the contractor saw. The reason that the contractor saw is larger is because the motor hangs off the back of the saw.
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post #20 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mackman View Post
For the past 3 years, I've worked with a Dewalt contractor saw. I just pulled the trigger on the G1023RLW (the Grizzly 3HP saw with extension table), and I'm worried that my past experience with the relatively underpowered Dewalt will have caused me to pick up bad habits that could be very dangerous with a genuine cabinet saw.

In your experience, are there any habits that woodworkers tend to get with contractor saws, that are dangerous when paired with a more powerful saw? The biggest thing I can think of is kickback, which I imagine is going to be a lot more intense when there's 3HP behind the blade, but I'm sure there are other things that are just as dangerous. Any tips?
went from kobalt contractor saw to delta 36-725 about 8 months ago, then to grizzly 1023rlw just recently as well. ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE SAW!

but yes, the kickbacks are a bitch if you're not paying attention like I wasn't when trying to rip 1/8" strips for an inlay I was doing and kickback occurred because I was cutting it improperly, shot straight back about 4 inches to the right of my gonads and shattered the piece of wood. Thankfully it 1) missed the ole jewels and 2) shattered on the outside of my skin instead of embedding itself into my skin. This was about 6 weeks ago, that little 12" long 1/8" thick, 3/4" wide strip left 3 brutal marks and a helluva bruise on my outer/upper thigh that still is tender today.

I was used to doing this without issue on my smaller saws (complacent) but this one bit me (and yes I understand the principles of cutting apply the same regardless what saw you use). Take your time, maybe watch a couple of youtube table saw (how to cut various items safely) safety videos, use push sticks (i love my new investment in microjig prodcuts) but mostly use the noggin / common sense (unlike me). With this saw, I have a TON of respect for it and every time I hit that power button, the ole butt puckers!

Just me being me and not trying to be you.
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