Any good Copers (crown molding) - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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Corner is 90.5 degrees. Cut the miter at 45. Coped the cut. And now there is a massive gap.

Any ideas why? Photo attached.

EDIT: Solution added below.
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Last edited by Microscopes; 12-18-2018 at 09:30 PM.
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post #2 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 07:13 PM
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How are you actually cutting the molding?

Flat, or at an angle?

Either way you need to go larger on the angle to get more material at the base.

This is why I always cut test pieces first....
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post #3 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 07:18 PM
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This video explains it, you cut the piece sitting against the miter saw fence upside down, then cope it:

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post #4 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
This video explains it, you cut the piece sitting against the miter saw fence upside down, then cope it:

Yes, this is exactly how I did it. I actually watched this video too!
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post #5 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 07:38 PM
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I have not installed more than 200' of crown molding through a LR, DR and down all the halls.
The bevels are not 45 and 90 so the cuts are not 45 and 90. You need to know the bevel angles.
The wood has to be swung out on the saw bed against the fence as if it's up on the wall.
Upside down and backwards are the easiest to cut.


You should make an inside corner and an outside corner to get the saw set up correctly.
I know, that's a waste of 4 or 5 feet of molding = well wasted.


When you get the pieces cut to fit correctly, paint the fresh cut wood ends with a black felt marker.
This creates an optical illusion that any gap/mistake is smaller that it really is!!!!
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post #6 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Microscopes View Post
Yes, this is exactly how I did it. I actually watched this video too!
You need to swing the saw head beyond 45, you will have to dial in the exact angle.
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post #7 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 08:18 PM
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Have matched the bottom of the molding on the wall to the same distance on the saw?

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post #8 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE on this.

Thanks for all the helpful replies. What I ended up doing was cutting and coping a small piece for every angle - 45, 46, 47, 48, and 49.

Finally at 49 it got pretty tight. Photo attached. Maybe 50 will be perfect?

But why is my angle finger showing this corner as 90.5 degrees and it needs a 50 degree inside cope to be tight?

Strange...
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post #9 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian T View Post
When you get the pieces cut to fit correctly, paint the fresh cut wood ends with a black felt marker.
This creates an optical illusion that any gap/mistake is smaller that it really is!!!!
Interesting tip!
Thank you!
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post #10 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 09:56 PM
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Do you have both of them set at the same spring angle? Looks like the piece fastened to the wall might be angled too much.

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post #11 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Microscopes View Post
UPDATE on this.

Thanks for all the helpful replies. What I ended up doing was cutting and coping a small piece for every angle - 45, 46, 47, 48, and 49.

Finally at 49 it got pretty tight. Photo attached. Maybe 50 will be perfect?

But why is my angle finger showing this corner as 90.5 degrees and it needs a 50 degree inside cope to be tight?

Strange...
That 50 degrees has nothing to do with the corner angle, it relates to the angle(tilt) of the crown it is coped to.
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post #12 of 33 Old 12-18-2018, 11:08 PM
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That's what I see also....

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
Do you have both of them set at the same spring angle? Looks like the piece fastened to the wall might be angled too much.
You needed a great angle because the pieces aren't laying against the wall at the same angle. The one on the right is more vertical.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #13 of 33 Old 12-19-2018, 12:09 AM
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You are installing crown molding in a house.
There's no law which says that walls are straight and corners are square.
Count yourself fortunate if you ever find such a corner.


You "wing it". You get angles that work, that look good when they go up.
You're most welcome to the black felt marker trick. Try it.



My partner and I are still speaking to eachother after the crown molding episode.
Will be 21 years for us at New Year's Eve. The fekking crown molding is still up there!
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post #14 of 33 Old 12-19-2018, 01:29 AM
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In that top picture, you need to roll your molding. If you were to take a block and place the block at the top of the left hand piece against the ceiling, and tap the block, the molding would come on down the wall and fall right into place. It looks like the mold was not rolled into place right, providing the cut is right. One degree off on a 90 degree corner will not make that much difference, unless you didn't bed the trim on your miter saw when you cut it. But if you did bed the trim and made the cut right, then just roll the trim like I said above.

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post #15 of 33 Old 12-19-2018, 07:17 AM
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I agree with bill and jim. 0.5 degrees off is not what is shown in the pictures - coping actually would not even have cared much at 0.5 degrees off. what is off is how the crown is sitting against the wall. you can see the coped piece is lower on the wall than the installed piece.


with the 2 small flats you have to play with it is difficult to get it right.

try this with a short piece. place the small flat against the wall about 2-3" below the ceiling, rock it back and forth to get the feel of the small flat on the wall. then slide it up the wall until it just touches - that is where it gets nailed. practice it a few times.


I do not nail the last 3' or so of the crown, until I get the next (adjacent) piece in. then, if I have to roll one of the pieces up or down to sit tight, you can do it.
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post #16 of 33 Old 12-19-2018, 08:31 AM
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This is why I don't like to lay my crown on an angle at the saw, I tilt the head to cut the bevel, too much messing around to make a 16' stick lay at an angle for me.

As others have indicated the spring angle is crucial too, you aren't going to clear up that gap by fixing yours, but it will bet better.
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post #17 of 33 Old 12-19-2018, 10:48 AM
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How I was shown:

Mark the spring angle on your saw with molding upside down, measure the distance from fence to mark and cut a block of wood that length. Use that block to mark bottom of trim on the walls as well as position of studs all the way around the room. You can use masking tape for this, position of ends of lengths of trim are critical, rest of span not so important as long as it is close, adjust by tapping trim with a hammer and block of wood.

Cut the trim upside down at an angle with the bottom edge of the trim on the mark.

Be aware that molding may fit corner at 45 degrees or multiples such as 38 and 52 degrees that add up to 90.
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Last edited by FrankC; 12-19-2018 at 10:52 AM.
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post #18 of 33 Old 12-19-2018, 02:00 PM
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I'm all about using hand tools as often as possible. But.

I don't have any problems making nice corners with my SCMS. No coping needed.
As an aside-----a few years ago my son was in Cub Scouts with a boy whose father is a contractor. During an activity (building birdhouses, I think) we looked at different types of tools. The contractor didn't know what a coping saw was. How's that happen?

Last edited by gj13us; 12-19-2018 at 02:04 PM.
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post #19 of 33 Old 12-19-2018, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gj13us View Post
I'm all about using hand tools as often as possible. But.

I don't have any problems making nice corners with my SCMS. No coping needed.
As an aside-----a few years ago my son was in Cub Scouts with a boy whose father is a contractor. During an activity (building birdhouses, I think) we looked at different types of tools. The contractor didn't know what a coping saw was. How's that happen?
Coping is for when things in the house move so you don't have visible gaps in your joints, not because someone can't cut miters that fit.

If a coping saw could cross cut a 2X12 I guess a contractor might have a reason to use one.

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post #20 of 33 Old 12-19-2018, 04:13 PM
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My miter saw came with a table to make the miter cuts. First step to making coping cuts.




In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.
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