4x4 post building - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 01:41 AM Thread Starter
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4x4 post building

I have modeled up a somewhat general idea of what I like to build. My idea I have consisted of is a 2 story workshop/living quarters that is 16 feet high if my math is correct, that would make both of the rooms 8 feet tall each.







The 3D model above is 10x14x8 with a 2 foot deep cement foundation with 4 4x4 post inserted 2 feet in the ground, since I have a small backyard, I'm not certain if I can do a 10x14 building but I will see once I move to the new house. The reason I'm posting this is to ask a few questions mainly about adding rods through the 4x4s and 2x4s and then bolting them together to add stability and strength when adding the living quarters above the shop. I mean would that even give it strength or stability and how should the ceiling floor studs be made in order to hold another building on top.

This is it for now till tomorrow kinda running out of things to say. if y'all need anymore info from me then please just ask.

Thanks
~ Chris
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post #2 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 02:25 AM
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The pics aren't showing up for me but from the text I don't think it fly.I doubt you will get this permitted.Would help to give you better info if we knew your location.
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post #3 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 08:32 AM
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Welcome to the club.

You must think more than 16'. There is floor joists between the first floor and the second floor you have to allow for. Depending on the size of the timbers you use the combined wall height would be 16' 8 1/2" to over 17' from the top of the first floor. For the timbers I would use 4x6's instead of 4x4's. I've had a lot of problems with warpage from 4x4's and the 4x6 timbers seem a lot more stable. I think posts on the four corners would be sufficient. Between you could use 2x4 construction. Just be sure to use all treated wood close to the ground or termites will visit you.

Do you plan on external stairs to get to the second level? As small as the building is the stairway would take up most of the structure.
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post #4 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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This 3D example will hopefully give you an idea of what i had in mine.




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post #5 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 09:42 AM
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What are the round rods running through the studs?
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post #6 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
What are the round rods running through the studs?
Steel rods with threaded ends.
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post #7 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 11:15 AM
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there are some rules of the road for building structures... No offense but it does not sound as if you have any experience with general framing techniques and may be reinventing the wheel. Worse, it sounds like that wheel might have square sides. For instance, you will frame the wall with 2x4s, you will use horizontal members to support, not threaded rod. lintels on top and bottom support floor joists, ect ect ect.

look around for building a barn kinda stuff, but in the end, I suspect you will realize this would be a HUGE job to undertake on your own, especially if you have none or very limited experience with it.
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post #8 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 11:54 AM
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You do not need the threaded rods. If the building is to be sheathed in plywood, you wont need any other bracing in the walls. 2' of concrete may be too much but if you are pouring a proper slab, you don't need 4" corner posts set in the ground. Its an either or decision, posts set in the ground to support the structure or pour a slab and frame up from there.
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post #9 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 01:10 PM
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You might want to check out some books on basic framing and carpentry before reinventing the wheel- as bauerbach mentioned. Your public library is likely a good source. That should give you an idea of what things are critical in construction, and what aren't likely to be beneficial, such as the threaded rod. Good luck
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post #10 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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The 4x4 posts are part of the structure and there will be horizontal members. The 2ft deep concrete slap is to accommodate the 10 foot 4x4 i figured that 2ft deep hole for the posts will make it stronger and more stable and give the height that i'm looking for which is 8ft walls.

As far as the threaded rods running through the studs that Is mainly just an idea I had in mine that I would have believed that it would give the structure more strength but i suppose i was wrong.

I have a car port in my backyard that can be easily be knock down by one person pushing on it because someone didn't put the 4x4 post down deeper or added no concrete.

Now I will admit that I have no real experience building anything of the sort, but I have built a club house by myself when I was 8 years old. It was made out of 2x4s and shipping pallets for the roof and the floor. I understand why you claim I have no experiences, but do you really need to come off as an "asshole" You don't know me and I don't know you. I mean at least I tried to understand the structure framing with the 3D model that I have presented here and from the stud walls that I have seen they're no different from mine.

Honestly, I don't see how I'm reinventing the wheel if this was a concrete block structure, then I would be using steel rebar going vertically through the blocks. Please explain why a adding 2x4 stud walls to 4 4x4 posts with steel threaded rods running through the studs and 4x4s would be bad?

Last edited by Landofnone; 09-20-2014 at 02:12 PM.
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post #11 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 02:14 PM
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Why not build it with concrete block? Answer: because it is overkill and not necessary. It is overkill to pour a 2' thick slab for a 10x14 building and it's not necessary to bury the posts if you have a slab. Not my opinion, just common building practice. Did you use threaded rod in your clubhouse?
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post #12 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinstar View Post
Why not build it with concrete block? Answer: because it is overkill and not necessary. It is overkill to pour a 2' thick slab for a 10x14 building and it's not necessary to bury the posts if you have a slab. Not my opinion, just common building practice. Did you use threaded rod in your clubhouse?
So because its not traditional its completely write off as bad or overkill. I'm not here to argue whats overkill i'm here to ask if my idea is going to collapse to the ground psychically speaking.
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post #13 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 02:51 PM
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Go to Lowes or Home Depot and pick up a book on building sheds. Or even get a copy of "The Visual Guide to remodeling" and you can pick up some good ideas. As far as your posts I would go with 6x6x12'posts on the corners set on top of a concrete footing that's 24" deep and 18" across. Attach the posts to the footings with steel connectors set into the concrete. 10x14 doesn't sound very big are you sure that will be big enough. If this is your first attempt at framing maybe take a shot at something smaller to start with.
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post #14 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 03:09 PM
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Install a double top plate. Bolt treated bottom plate to concrete. Install a proper header on the end walls. Install a rim joist or blocking between joists. Research the correct joist size for a 10' span taking into account live load. Sheath with plywood. Do that and it won't fall down.
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post #15 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 03:13 PM
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"2 foot deep cement foundation with 4 4x4 post inserted 2 feet in the ground, "
Could you please explain this in more detail.With no experience I don't expect for the terminology to be be correct but will try and help if you will explain this a bit more.
Are you planning on putting the posts 2' in the ground for your support or are you actually planning on pouring a 2' deep footing all around the perimeter of the structure.
Need to know your location to be of much help with the support underground.Weather and frost line dictates this.
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post #16 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Please explain why a adding 2x4 stud walls to 4 4x4 posts with steel threaded rods running through the studs and 4x4s would be bad?
I'm not sure anyone said that the threaded rods were bad; I did say in my previous post that they weren't likely to be beneficial. The rods would help to keep the rods from bowing under vertical stress, but don't really add to lateral stability. Assuming that you were planning on having some sort of siding, attaching the siding to the studs would adequately prevent the studs from bowing. Siding also adds considerable sideways strength; if your carport had siding, it wouldn't have been so easy to push over So, with siding, the rod isn't bad, but just a redundant, added expense.

I'm not a structural engineer, but concrete has impressive compressive strength, but relatively low tensile strength; rebar improves tensile strength.

I'm not sure to whom "asshole" was directed; if it was me, I apologize for any slight. Any comments I made were intended to be constructive. From the other posts, I don't see anything else that is not intended likewise to be anything but constructive and positive. We're all here to learn.
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post #17 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landofnone View Post
So because its not traditional its completely write off as bad or overkill. I'm not here to argue whats overkill i'm here to ask if my idea is going to collapse to the ground psychically speaking.
No ones ever built a structure as your describing. It probably wont fall over...

Or you could build it the proven way, for less money, and less work, and be sure it wont fall over.

In all honesty though, you shouldnt build this at all. This is not a project for a novice. especially if you are not willing to follow a prescribed plan and intend to make it up as you go.

In another point, you'll need substantial help to make it physically possible. The 2' foundation will cost you a grand assuming you can float it yourself.

Last edited by bauerbach; 09-20-2014 at 05:03 PM.
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post #18 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 05:50 PM
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There are so many things wrong with your idea I do not know where to start. But you seem intent on not taking the advice you came here asking for. So good luck with your project.
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post #19 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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I suppose if you're telling its not going to be possible then i should stop wasting your time on my ideas. Bye take care.
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post #20 of 24 Old 09-20-2014, 07:23 PM
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Carpenters have been building houses for a few centuries, so its very possible if you want to follow the proven designs that your city no doubt requires to conform to building codes.

Did you randomly turn house building on its head and come up with a better way to do it? no, and even if you had, you wouldnt get a permit from the city to do it.

We suggested you learn the right way to construct a house, and consider things like... the 2nd floor taking up vertical space and wood set in cement rotting the wood. You seem to think we are just hating on your brilliance, if thats your attitude, not sure why you asked, you already know it all.
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