Was this work done correctly? - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 40 Old 01-12-2015, 12:43 PM
Measure Once, Cut Twice
 
123pugsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: MARKHAM, ON
Posts: 69
View 123pugsy's Photo Album My Photos
That really looks bad.
They only offer this 1/4' veneer?
Yours must be the first job they did as they would have already received a bunch of complaints otherwise and would have stopped doing something so [email protected]##@#$.
123pugsy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 40 Old 01-12-2015, 06:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Rebelwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Odessa,MO
Posts: 1,514
View Rebelwork's Photo Album My Photos
When I refaced cabinets I charged $100 an opening. Now probably more like $125-$150 an opening. Every drawer and door is an opening. This includes exterior,new drawer box, hardware and handles. All doors,drawers and faces prefinished. Countertops are extra. Use this as a sort of bases on pricing

You will find a lot of shops moving into different areas of work they never performed before. Yesterday new work, tomorrow remodeling and refacing.

And no it doesn't look correct....
Rebelwork is online now  
post #23 of 40 Old 01-12-2015, 10:46 PM
Sawing against the Wind
 
Tennessee Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: God's beautiful hills of Middle Tennessee
Posts: 2,381
View Tennessee Tim's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightythree View Post
As a matter of fact Al, the ONLY option that was show to me was the 1/4 plywood :



They specifically said they dont like to use other veneers as they didn't hold up as well as the ply.
83....from what I've read on contract and your statement, they didn't hide or switch anything....and you didn't say they did either.... There was a lack of knowledge on your part as to how it was going to look UNLESS they showed you a sample of something different. YES the most replies above are correct in there is some workmanship issues AND a much better way to do them.

SADLY THIS brings down to you and the owner negotiating over the bad workmanship BUT not the plywood facing stiles due to they were done according to contract AND they also by your statement told you that would be used. I agree the price sounds high BUT we can't see all the facets the contract specifies BUT I"VE always said an item or project is only worth what 2 people agree on...good or bad...and this was the agreement/contract...

You have grounds to hold the final until the workmanship is corrected but NOT to change the plywood face stiles.

This is sad BUT a common happening in many contracts or deals....LACK of knowledge and a trust that's the way it's all done.

83 I wish you the best and pray everything works out for you. Count this as a learning curve and that many will read to have better knowledge on the different grades of face trims that can be applied and it DOES affect the cost though. IF he's a worthy owner he'll give you the option to upgrade to the solid veneer but PLEASE don't expect him to do it for the original price agreed due to it would've been an upcharge to begin with and considered a change order. (REMINDING everyone we didn't see a complete quote on things to be done and it is also area price stuctured, so in Cal. that may have been CHEAP according to some of the house prices there).

Al and Steve, THANKS for bringing out some good points that will help others (if they read) in their next project and contracts. From the little I could see the business had a pretty thorough itemized/spec'd checklist that covered a LOT of things in that small view and I have to applaud them for that....most are so vague (and I've been guilty of not enough description BUT I did produce the quality and workmanship) and leaves too much unknown and can be dangerous if their not worthy of their word.

Again 83 my best to you in negotiating.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
........www.TSMFarms.com.......... John 3:16-21 ..........
Reveling God's awesome beauty while creating one of-a-kind flitches and heirlooms.
Tennessee Tim is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 40 Old 01-12-2015, 10:59 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
I don't know, even if he agreed to plywood refacing, leaving exposed edges everywhere isn't the proper method of finishing. I think he still has recourse on poor workmanship.

The tools don't make the craftsman....
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #25 of 40 Old 01-12-2015, 11:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
By any standards that was a poor job. The hard question is where to go from there. It wouldn't surprise me if that contractor wouldn't abandon that job if pressed to reface the cabinets again with veneer. It's also possible the contractor might file a mechanic's lean on the house since it was specified in the contract the cabinets would be covered with plywood. I think the best that can be hoped for is to get them to touch up what was done.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #26 of 40 Old 01-12-2015, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 11
View eightythree's Photo Album My Photos
I can't thank everyone enough for helping me out and getting me on the right track. I have an appointment tomorrow (Tuesday) with the owner coming over. I'm going to go over the work with him and request he go over the fronts with veneers and do them correctly. I couldn't imagine trying to selling this house and having a potential homeowner not notice what I noticed. I've heard time and again kitchens are a big deal when it comes to selling your home so it's important that I do something about this.

To me, if I was the owner, I wouldn't want pictures of this work in a review like Angie's List/Yelp. I don't think a single person on here has said that this looks like good work. The best comment someone made was that it was average. The images I have shown are just a few of the things were wrong.

I'll update this thread after I've discussed the issues with the owner.
eightythree is offline  
post #27 of 40 Old 01-12-2015, 11:39 PM
Sawing against the Wind
 
Tennessee Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: God's beautiful hills of Middle Tennessee
Posts: 2,381
View Tennessee Tim's Photo Album My Photos
I didn't say it's the proper method of finishing , I agree it's not what I would've wanted OR done, BUT it was noted on the contract that's the way it would be done and he agreed AND acknowledged he was told it was what was to be used so that makes that part binding/an agreement in the contract.

I'm only bringing out the point that IF we sign a contract, we can't wait wait until AFTER it's done to ask others IF it was the best way to do it. ACTUALLY it's only an opinion on the grade of quality one expects to be correct. NOW there are parts of the refacing that are NOT acceptable such as the putty cracking etc., etc.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
........www.TSMFarms.com.......... John 3:16-21 ..........
Reveling God's awesome beauty while creating one of-a-kind flitches and heirlooms.
Tennessee Tim is offline  
post #28 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 11
View eightythree's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennessee Tim View Post
I didn't say it's the proper method of finishing , I agree it's not what I would've wanted OR done, BUT it was noted on the contract that's the way it would be done and he agreed AND acknowledged he was told it was what was to be used so that makes that part binding/an agreement in the contract.

I'm only bringing out the point that IF we sign a contract, we can't wait wait until AFTER it's done to ask others IF it was the best way to do it. ACTUALLY it's only an opinion on the grade of quality one expects to be correct. NOW there are parts of the refacing that are NOT acceptable such as the putty cracking etc., etc.
You are 100% right it says right there in the contract that maple ply was going to be used on the front faces, however the contractor didn't really describe the way in which they would be constructed such as the ply being joined in a way that we would have to paint the edge to cover the plywood core. Nor did he state that the veneer joints wouldn't correspond with the joints in the cabinet's construction.

The pictures I was shown looked like how I envisioned the work would look like. What was shown to me and the end result are very far apart. I'm not even that concerned with the price per se, I just want the quality/craftsmenship to correspond with the price I paid. If I spend $10k I want work that looks like it's $10k worth.
eightythree is offline  
post #29 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 04:00 AM
Village Idiot
 
epicfail48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 4,906
View epicfail48's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightythree View Post
I can't thank everyone enough for helping me out and getting me on the right track. I have an appointment tomorrow (Tuesday) with the owner coming over. I'm going to go over the work with him and request he go over the fronts with veneers and do them correctly. I couldn't imagine trying to selling this house and having a potential homeowner not notice what I noticed. I've heard time and again kitchens are a big deal when it comes to selling your home so it's important that I do something about this.

To me, if I was the owner, I wouldn't want pictures of this work in a review like Angie's List/Yelp. I don't think a single person on here has said that this looks like good work. The best comment someone made was that it was average. The images I have shown are just a few of the things were wrong.

I'll update this thread after I've discussed the issues with the owner.
I agree with you on all points. I actually recent went house shopping (sort of), and the first thing i looked or was fit and finish, e.g does the baseboard molding look good, door frames all square, and yes, do the kitchen cabinets look good. The way i see it, if someone has skimped on those basic, highly visible areas then the non-visible areas are even worse.

I agree with most of the other guys on the contract thing. he contract you signed did specify the cabinets would be faced with a 1/4 veneered ply, but by the same token im fairly certain that somewhere that contract also has a worksmanship guarantee. My opinion is that you are well within your rights to demand the work gets fixed and withhold the remaining payment, given that i doubt the work you received was the worked that was promised.

Heck, i think i couldve done a better job than that contractor, and im a weekend hackjob. Wouldve at lease made sure the veneer splices matched up

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
epicfail48 is offline  
post #30 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 10:23 AM
Measure Once, Cut Twice
 
123pugsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: MARKHAM, ON
Posts: 69
View 123pugsy's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennessee Tim View Post
I didn't say it's the proper method of finishing , I agree it's not what I would've wanted OR done, BUT it was noted on the contract that's the way it would be done and he agreed AND acknowledged he was told it was what was to be used so that makes that part binding/an agreement in the contract.

I'm only bringing out the point that IF we sign a contract, we can't wait wait until AFTER it's done to ask others IF it was the best way to do it. ACTUALLY it's only an opinion on the grade of quality one expects to be correct. NOW there are parts of the refacing that are NOT acceptable such as the putty cracking etc., etc.
If the fronts are to be 1/4" thick veneer, then they need to be installed first with the outsides and inside veneers overlapping the thickness of the wood. No?
If the insides are not to be re-veneered, thus lapping the thickness, then the possibility of using the 1/4" material is off the table and the client should be told this.

If it's done wrong, it's done wrong no matter what is stated on a contract.
123pugsy is offline  
post #31 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 11
View eightythree's Photo Album My Photos
So I finished consulting with the sales guy and he pretty much told me they only use the 1/8in (I guess it's not 1/4in) ply on the faces. He said they wouldn't be able to warranty the work if they did used thin veneer. I'm not sure what I can do short of just holding back the final payment.
eightythree is offline  
post #32 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 05:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Rebelwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Odessa,MO
Posts: 1,514
View Rebelwork's Photo Album My Photos
The 1/4 is put on the sides and the face pieces should overlap the side flush. A piece of scribe should have been put on to cover the exposed end. You will have a piece of scribe in the front as well as the back.

The 1/4 plywood wasn't the problem. It is used all the time. Either it was inexperience of the shop workers installing or independent installers.

Contract or not, the installation wasn't correct.

Just read your post. i don't know what is left of the final payment. Unless all problems are solved I wouldn't pay...

Last edited by Rebelwork; 01-13-2015 at 05:05 PM.
Rebelwork is online now  
post #33 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 11
View eightythree's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelwork View Post
The 1/4 is put on the sides and the face pieces should overlap the side flush. A piece of scribe should have been put on to cover the exposed end. You will have a piece of scribe in the front as well as the back.

The 1/4 plywood wasn't the problem. It is used all the time. Either it was inexperience of the shop workers installing or independent installers.

Contract or not, the installation wasn't correct.

Just read your post. i don't know what is left of the final payment. Unless all problems are solved I wouldn't pay...
Hey Rebelwork, could you show me an example of what this looks like? I can't picture it in my head.
eightythree is offline  
post #34 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 05:12 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
Did you meet with the sales guy, or the owner?

The tools don't make the craftsman....
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #35 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 11
View eightythree's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan50hrl View Post
Did you meet with the sales guy, or the owner?
Sent out the sales guy. He called the owner on the phone while I was there and the owner said they wouldn't do thin veneer because they wouldn't warranty the work.
eightythree is offline  
post #36 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 05:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Rebelwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Odessa,MO
Posts: 1,514
View Rebelwork's Photo Album My Photos
I have some pictures somewhere. I'll locate em and see I find one. The pictures were on a whitewash set.
Rebelwork is online now  
post #37 of 40 Old 01-13-2015, 06:08 PM
Senior Member
 
WillemJM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pinehurst, NC
Posts: 1,200
View WillemJM's Photo Album My Photos
Reading this whole thread, I really believe the work already failed the warranty before it was even completed.

How many openings?

If it was me, getting $2,500 back is not enough, I would want the whole $10,000 back.

If you are planning to sell the home at some point, that work will have to be done over.

Pure mathematics is, in it's way, the poetry of logical ideas. - Albert Einstein.
WillemJM is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to WillemJM For This Useful Post:
123pugsy (01-13-2015)
post #38 of 40 Old 01-14-2015, 03:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Huntingdon Cambs UK
Posts: 163
View sancho's Photo Album My Photos
What type of warranty if any did they give you? If its warranted, get them out there and repair it..

10K is a lot of money.
sancho is offline  
post #39 of 40 Old 01-15-2015, 10:00 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Swedesboro NJ
Posts: 3
View JerrySats's Photo Album My Photos
Just curious how many cabinets you had redone for $10k ?
JerrySats is offline  
post #40 of 40 Old 01-17-2015, 01:44 AM
Senior Member
 
Al_Amantea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 146
View Al_Amantea's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightythree View Post
Sent out the sales guy. He called the owner on the phone while I was there and the owner said they wouldn't do thin veneer because they wouldn't warranty the work.
So what was the final outcome here? Did they agree to at least fix the visible edges and the horrible putty job?
Al_Amantea is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Deck addition, how correctly brace free-standing deck? BulletHead Project Showcase 27 09-06-2014 12:45 PM
how to cut multiple wide "boards" correctly? yarg28 General Woodworking Discussion 18 01-14-2014 08:32 AM
Did I setup dados correctly? deadherring General Woodworking Discussion 7 04-29-2012 06:53 PM
Am i reading this correctly? htank General Woodworking Discussion 21 07-18-2011 11:10 PM
Anti-Slip Tip for work sliding on your work surface. Bearcreek Tips, Tricks, & Homemade Jigs 3 08-19-2009 08:08 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome