Tips for Replacing an Exterior Door? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
View hydro's Photo Album My Photos
Tips for Replacing an Exterior Door?

I'm new here and have a few questions about replacing an old exterior door in a circa 1950's house. By way of introduction I should say I'm very much a carpentry novice.

The old door is off a deck and gets minimal use. Its very old and being on the south side has become extremely weather beaten. When I removed it for inspection recently, I discovered it was actually a hollow interior door! I suppose the fact that it was hung with two hinges should have been a clue.

The new blank I've purchased is an exterior wood door (flush with birch finish) and weighs in at 89 pounds. I plan on installing the new door by using the old door as a template to determine where the hinge mortises should go. The old hinges are 3-1/2" tall knuckle-type with removable pins and are attached using three screws.

I've read a door of this weight needs to have 3 hinges. So I plan on replacing the two old hinges and adding a third. I know I'll have to add some material into the existing wood screw holes to keep the new #9x1 screws tight (hopefully this isn't considered a bad practice?).

My first question is ... what's the best way to install that new 3rd hinge? I assume the top & bottom hinges should be installed first and checked for fit/alignment by attaching the door. I'm guessing that after this is done, the 3rd hinge can be installed on the jamb and then the position of the center mortise on the door can be determined while the door is hanging on the top & bottom hinges.

My second question is ... I've been told its a good idea to apply a coat of epoxy resin on the top/bottom edges of the door before applying a good oil-based exterior primer. I happen to build radio-controlled sailplanes and have some West Systems 105 resin. Would this type of resin be OK?

Lastly, this is really a rookie question, but I'm wondering if its good practice to apply primer to the hinge mortises and also in the lock cutouts? This was not the case on the old door.

Thanks for any tips or ideas. Needless to say, I would really like to avoid any hinge alignment or other headaches.
hydro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 06:20 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,131
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Your plan is good

But I would align the old and new doors exactly at the bottom to make certain the new door will seal correctly any difference is best at the top. Then scribe across the mortises onto the new door using a knife blade and locate a center mortise on the new door. You can then transfer the scribe to the jamb after you hang it. It may be easier to cut the jamb mortise with out the door in the way so be prepared to take in off again. A few door shims and a spacer block will aide in the installation underneath. A helper isn't a bad idea, if one is just hangin' around anyway. If the new slab had a lock set hole that should also line up, but slabs usually are blank. You can use the old lock hole to locate the new one by running your hole saw in the old one as a bore guide. I use a hand held minirouter for the majority of clean out on the mortises now that I have one. It makes the job a whole lot faster and I'm not that good with the chisel. But you still need to chisel your hinge perimeter by hand ....unless you make a guide for the router. Being lazy and having a mess of mortises, that's what I did. But for just 2 it ain't worth it, but I sometimes use a Forstner bit for the rounded radius of the hinge mortise. Square corners are easier. Good Luck and pictures tell the whole story! bill

OMT: A slight bevel on the bottom to ease it on the threshold seal may or may not be on the old door. Before you line them up bevel the bottom and compensate for the difference when you line them up. You may want to replace the existing threshold which will throw everything off if there's a height difference.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-29-2010 at 10:45 AM.
woodnthings is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 10:08 AM
Ole Woodworker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 4,554
View BigJim's Photo Album My Photos
You need to check with a square to see if your door is beveled on the hinge and hardware side of the door. If it isn't you will need bevel both sides or your hinges will bind and the door will catch on the hardware side when closing.

One other thing, 3 1/2 inch hinges are interior hinges, exterior doors take 4 inch hinges. The reason for three hinges on an exterior door is it catches temperature differences from inside and outside, if there are only two hinges the door can bow when opened and will bind on the jamb when closed, sometimes. It may not do that on all doors but I have seen it happen on several.

I think you are on the right track, use your old door to be a pattern and you will be fine. All wood workers have their own way to do things which there is nothing wrong with that. I personally like to have a small margin at the top of the door, about 1/8-3/16 inch and adjust the bottom accordingly but that is just me.

http://www.diychatroom.com/
The Other
BigJim

If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.
BigJim is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 10:56 AM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
I mark off the mortises from one door to the other. For the third hinge, I will mount on the door with two screws. I then hang the door and mark the jamb for the third hinge. After mortising the jamb, hang the door with two screws in the jamb and the door for all the leaves, and tighten to the point where the door will close and open.

I only bevel the closing side, and if the leaves are flush to the door edge and the jamb, it should operate properly. The hinge side gap will depend on the swag of the hinges. If there is no problem, I'll install the rest of the screws.






.
.
cabinetman is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
View hydro's Photo Album My Photos
You've all been very kind to share your knowledge.

The old door does have a bevel on the bottom edge. But there don't seem to be any bevels on the hinge or hardware sides. The "reveal" gap on the hardware side is 1/8", and on the hinge side its less than 1/8".

But I'll be prepared to bevel the long sides with a circular saw or belt sander if need be. I suspect there will be a few trial fit hangings.

Does anyone have any comments on using epoxy resin on the top/bottom edges to reduce chances of water damage? Is it worth the effort?
hydro is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 06:49 PM
Ole Woodworker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 4,554
View BigJim's Photo Album My Photos
Just a thought, try the door without the bevel and see how it fits, maybe you will luck out and it will close OK. I wouldn't try to bevel the door with a circular saw as it is tough to get good and straight with one unless you are really good with one. If the door doesn't close right I would use the belt sander to bevel it. A plane would be best of all but the sander is better than the saw, slower but better.

http://www.diychatroom.com/
The Other
BigJim

If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.
BigJim is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 07:52 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,131
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
On the advice of an expert

My buddy, a commercial door maker who knows more about doors than I ever will he says the practice of beveling the hinge edge has largely been discontinued. There is is a mechanical reason for beveling the lock edge, since the pivot location of the hinge is outside the body of the door and the edge needs to swing into the jam. If the reveal is generous it's not an issue, a tighter fit needs the swing clearance. The bottom bevel is more a factor of your type of threshold.
If the door "springs" open on it's own, the mortises are too deep and a piece of card board from a cereal box behind the hinge will space it out to cure that issue. If you decide to use the 4" hinges, hold the top of the bottom hinge and the bottom of the top hinge to increase the mortise. It will show less that way. In my opinion 3 - 3" hinges should hold it up pretty well, but that's up to you. Keep us posted! bill
BTW I agree with ole jim on not using a circ saw for the bevel if it's necessary. A hand plane and some crayola or chalk will show where you are on the bevel. A power plane, Porter Cable used to make a guide for this, would also work. but requires a little more skill...OK a lot.
A belt sander is hard to control on an angle. JMO.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-29-2010 at 07:57 PM.
woodnthings is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 08:41 PM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
A few more thoughts. I wouldn't recommend using a power plane, as it can get too aggressive very fast. If you're very experienced using one only then would I suggest it.

When inserting screws into the hinge, I use a scratch awl and eyeball the center of the hole and punch it. I find a vix bit or a spring loaded punch can produce an offset hole if at all out of perpendicular. With eyeballing the center and using a punch, I get better results. If the screws seat at a slight angle, the heads can protrude enough to hit the opposing leaf. A screw that gets seated in an offset hole can possibly move the hinge out of position.

I work on doors on edge. There's a few ways to support a door on edge on the job. I use a Zyliss vise when I have something to clamp to. Usually there's not much hanging around a client's home to use, so I use 2 - 12" Jorgie handscrew clamps on a flat area. I set the camps on the floor flat, open the jaws, slide the door in, and tighten. Surprisingly, it holds well enough to use a chisel, handplane, or belt sander.

When drilling a handle/lockset or deadbolt with a hole saw, drill through one side until the pilot bit just breaks a small hole on the other side. Then remove the saw and drill it out from the other side.






.
.
cabinetman is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 09:59 PM
Ole Woodworker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 4,554
View BigJim's Photo Album My Photos
I am still back in the 70s, well come to think of it I always beveled both edges of my doors. I bought one of the Porter-Cable door planes back in the 70s and still have it. Back in those days we got all of our doors and jambs knock down and did all of it. I guess I just never got out of the habit of beveling both sides as it did cover any screws at an angle or anything that might make the door hinge bound.

We did our doors on edge also as it is just a lot easier. Here is a very rough sketch of the jig we made to hold our doors on edge.

The reason 4 inch hinges are used on an exterior door is an exterior door is 1 3/4 thick where and interior door is 1 3/8 inch, or use to be. A 4 inch hinge has 4 screws per side of hinge and is wider as to support the heavier door where a 3 inch hinge has only 3 screws per side. I'm not trying to be a know it all or a horses kizzini I am just pointing out the differences in the two hinges, and I am sure not saying woodnthings didn't remember the difference. I just hate to ruffle anyones feathers.
Attached Images
 

http://www.diychatroom.com/
The Other
BigJim

If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.

Last edited by BigJim; 09-29-2010 at 10:10 PM.
BigJim is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 10:33 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,131
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Don't worry Jim

My feathers don't ruffle much anymore and especially from a nice gentleman like yourself. We all have our opinions and some have more experience behind them than others and I always bow to experience over opinion. Between the 3 of us C-man, me and yourself, we have pretty much covered the whole gammet on hangin' a door. Kinda fun I think.
The last door I hung, my front door, was a 42" wide, 2 1/4" thick, 15 panels, was made by my buddy for a job that was "leftover" and when he asked could I use one, I said YES! went home and moved the studs over from a 36" and built a new header and moved the light switches and bought 4" ball bearing hinges (3) @ $56.00 each and somekind of $300.00 lockset at wholesale cost. I also made jambs and a threshold, mortised the lockset and hinges of course. It locks up like Fort Knox! bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 09-29-2010, 11:39 PM
Ole Woodworker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 4,554
View BigJim's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
My feathers don't ruffle much anymore and especially from a nice gentleman like yourself. We all have our opinions and some have more experience behind them than others and I always bow to experience over opinion. Between the 3 of us C-man, me and yourself, we have pretty much covered the whole gammet on hangin' a door. Kinda fun I think.
The last door I hung, my front door, was a 42" wide, 2 1/4" thick, 15 panels, was made by my buddy for a job that was "leftover" and when he asked could I use one, I said YES! went home and moved the studs over from a 36" and built a new header and moved the light switches and bought 4" ball bearing hinges (3) @ $56.00 each and somekind of $300.00 lockset at wholesale cost. I also made jambs and a threshold, mortised the lockset and hinges of course. It locks up like Fort Knox! bill
Buddy, that is one heck of a door, I couldn't afford many of them things. I had some dealing with the ball bearing hinges also several years ago. I had to change out a 4/0X7/0 2 inch thick lead lined door in an Xray room and by myself. Man you talk about heavy, I had to use a flat bar to raise it up to get it on the hinges and it had 5 of the high dollar hinges also. I didn't care much for that door.

Thanks, I do appreciate you putting up with an ole man my friend.

http://www.diychatroom.com/
The Other
BigJim

If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.
BigJim is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Refinishing Exterior Oak Door Sanding Wood Finishing 12 11-26-2010 05:08 PM
Popular for exterior door ??? framingrailman General Woodworking Discussion 4 06-30-2010 10:55 PM
Exterior door window trim? Andrew07 Trim Carpentry & Built-Ins 5 06-27-2009 12:30 AM
Exterior door wood. Nate1778 General Woodworking Discussion 0 06-19-2009 10:30 AM
Molding around an arched exterior door wkharden Trim Carpentry & Built-Ins 10 06-10-2009 05:54 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome