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post #1 of 24 Old 02-12-2011, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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Question A survey for DIY Woodworkers

Hello, my name is Jeff Alger.
I'm taking a Master's class in Instructional Design at Boise State University. My group's project is to develop training that teaches people how to strip the wood trim inside their house and ready it for refinishing (I'm not kidding, that's our actual project!). The first step we have to do is find out why people don't refinish their own interior trim. So, we developed a survey to find out.Can I ask the DIYers on this board to take a couple minutes and answer the following questions? Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jeff

Do you know how to prepare wood trim for refinishing?


If so, where did you learn how to do it?


Have you ever refinished wood trim or furniture before?

If you wanted to refinish the trim in your house, would you consider doing it yourself?

If not, what would you say the biggest barrier to doing it yourself was?
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-12-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoMan View Post


Do you know how to prepare wood trim for refinishing?
Yes

If so, where did you learn how to do it?
Florida

Have you ever refinished wood trim or furniture before?
Yes

If you wanted to refinish the trim in your house, would you consider doing it yourself?
Yes








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post #3 of 24 Old 02-12-2011, 04:10 PM
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Quote:

Do you know how to prepare wood trim for refinishing?

NO

If so, where did you learn how to do it?


Have you ever refinished wood trim or furniture before?

YES

If you wanted to refinish the trim in your house, would you consider doing it yourself?

YES

If not, what would you say the biggest barrier to doing it yourself was?
I think the biggest turndown to refinishing trim is the ratio of

(Endless Hours of Work * Brain Cells Killed From Stripper) : Brief Satisfaction of New Looking Trim

If you use that formula in your paper, I would like to be quoted. Thanks =)
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-12-2011, 06:09 PM
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Survey?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoMan View Post
Hello, my name is Jeff Alger.
I'm taking a Master's class in Instructional Design at Boise State University. My group's project is to develop training that teaches people how to strip the wood trim inside their house and ready it for refinishing (I'm not kidding, that's our actual project!). The first step we have to do is find out why people don't refinish their own interior trim. So, we developed a survey to find out.Can I ask the DIYers on this board to take a couple minutes and answer the following questions? Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jeff

Do you know how to prepare wood trim for refinishing?


If so, where did you learn how to do it?


Have you ever refinished wood trim or furniture before?

If you wanted to refinish the trim in your house, would you consider doing it yourself?

If not, what would you say the biggest barrier to doing it yourself was?
You will get more response to a DIY question at the DIY forum tab above in the tool bar in my opinion.
There may be some woodworkers here that have refinished trim, but that would be more of a homeowner's thing or a professional painters thing
JMO bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #5 of 24 Old 02-12-2011, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansmike View Post


(Endless Hours of Work * Brain Cells Killed From Stripper) : Brief Satisfaction of New Looking Trim


and then divide again by this number:

(Debris + Dust + Noise) X (Days) X (Divorce Attorneys fees)
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post #6 of 24 Old 02-12-2011, 09:37 PM
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I guess that I do not understand what you mean by refinishing wood trim in a house. To what wood trim are you referring?

What I think of as wood trim in a house is crown molding, door casing, baseboard, etc.

I have never heard of anyone "refinishing" this. The most common way to "refinish" is to remove and install new. Usually it is just painted.

George
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post #7 of 24 Old 02-13-2011, 06:46 AM
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Not to be throwin a wrench in anyones plans but........you really need to bone up on the whole lead paint thing.And I sure as heck ain't talkin about the VERY jhonny-come-lately,EPA.This has been at issue for decades along with its solutions.It along with a host of other precautions may very well be a determining factor...way before we're concerned with any "special" RR techniques.


As for who,what,when,where.....thats a looong story that encomapsses a cpl hundred years.Uh,we're a family of builders.No biggy,just sayin the things you're questioning "used" to be handed down from generation to generation.With the full understanding that each would increase the knowlege base over the previous.......our family is certainly not alone in this.It is however a slight drift or sidestep to today's computer based,wikipedia trained "experts".And its also largely been displaced by get rich quick contractors spewing misinformation and personal agenda's.Where the community at large USED to be motive enough.

So,iffin you really want the education exercise.....and wholey think you should......pull up the ole sheet and have a peek under.Not all that appears to be,"is".This is one of the best,most positive sites on the net.Theres a nice cross-section of craftsman here.Search is your friend.Good luck with your school.......getting enough to eat?need money?(Sorry,put 4 boys through college)BW
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post #8 of 24 Old 02-13-2011, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the great responses and warm welcome.

Let me start from the top:

@hansmike and SteveEl: Thanks for the great math equations! I'm definitely going to find a way to put them in our paper.

@Bill: Thanks for the redirect. I have posted this same survey on a few forums, including the DIY forum above. Trying to cast a wide net, so to speak. Everybody's been very nice and helpful, so thanks for that.
Our main focus is on DIYers, not necessarily professionals, but we'll take all the input we can get and sort it out later.

@GeorgeC: Your list is exactly what we're talking about. Thanks for the input. We're getting the same type of response from other sources, as well.

@BW: First, thanks for the luck wishes, it's appreciated. I should let you know that I'm a 45 year-old Coast Guard Senior Chief taking online courses, and have 2 grandkids. So I'm eating waaay too much, and never seem to get enough sleep.

Secondly, you're not the first person to bring up the lead issue. I admit, that's something our group has never thought about, and we'll bring it up to the client (who is a professional woodworker himself).

Thanks again for all the response. Keep them coming!
Jeff
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-13-2011, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoMan View Post
Hello, my name is Jeff Alger.
I'm taking a Master's class in Instructional Design at Boise State University. My group's project is to develop training that teaches people how to strip the wood trim inside their house and ready it for refinishing (I'm not kidding, that's our actual project!).

Thanks!
Jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoMan View Post
I admit, that's something our group has never thought about, and we'll bring it up to the client (who is a professional woodworker himself).

Jeff
At first you're a student, and this is a class project. Then your "group" has a client. Hmmm...interesting.








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post #10 of 24 Old 02-13-2011, 10:47 AM
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Good points C-man

you said:
Hello, my name is Jeff Alger.
I'm taking a Master's class in Instructional Design at Boise State University. My group's project is to develop training that teaches people how to strip the wood trim inside their house and ready it for refinishing (I'm not kidding, that's our actual project!). The first step we have to do is find out why people don't refinish their own interior trim. So, we developed a survey to find out.Can I ask the DIYers on this board to take a couple minutes and answer the following questions? Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Big picture for me is the "why" in your question....
It's nasty, smelly, messy, poisonous, hazardous, possibly explosive and time consuming. JMO!
Leave it to a "pro" who gets all suited up, rubber gloves, respirators and all.

So, Is it less about the actual process of stripping and refinishing, and more about the means of instruction (slick presentation)?
Or is your assignment to determine the processes involved and the assets, liabilities and drawbacks, then develop a detailed working procedure and a slick presentation?
Will you be judged as a group or individually?
What is your specific assignment within your group?
I hated "group" projects 'cause there always was a slacker.
Just a few question/thoughts... bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #11 of 24 Old 02-14-2011, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Big picture for me is the "why" in your question....
It's nasty, smelly, messy, poisonous, hazardous, possibly explosive and time consuming. JMO!
Leave it to a "pro" who gets all suited up, rubber gloves, respirators and all.
Our big picture also starts with the "why". Our client (an actual client) came to us and said that people aren't stripping and refinishing their own interior trim. He wants to change that. So the first thing we have to do is find out why people aren't doing it themselves. We have received many answers that agree with you about nasty, smelly, etc. But we also have some from inexperienced folks that say "because I don't know how". That indicates that training in how to strip interior trim might be useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
So, Is it less about the actual process of stripping and refinishing, and more about the means of instruction (slick presentation)?
That's part of it

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Or is your assignment to determine the processes involved and the assets, liabilities and drawbacks, then develop a detailed working procedure and a slick presentation?
That's the other big part of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Will you be judged as a group or individually?
What is your specific assignment within your group?
The project is judged as a group. We also have several individual assignments we have to complete. Part of my specific assignment was to post this survey on woodworking and DIY forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Just a few question/thoughts... bill
And we really, really appreciate your feedback! Thanks again! Jeff
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post #12 of 24 Old 02-14-2011, 06:24 AM
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Simple answer as to why not DIY

for inexperienced people is they don't know the how. When they find out about the nasty, smelly, messy, hazardous part, all you need to do is tell them that, they'll be gone in a heart beat... JMO That's what would turn me off on the whole concept. I know folks with oak, walnut or cherry trim in beautiful older houses have spent years and hours painstakingly scraping, sanding, soaking because the trim is no longer available and is pretty much priceless. bill
Quote:
So the first thing we have to do is find out why people aren't doing it themselves. We have received many answers that agree with you about nasty, smelly, etc. But we also have some from inexperienced folks that say "because I don't know how". That indicates that training in how to strip interior trim might be useful.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 02-14-2011 at 08:16 AM.
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-14-2011, 06:57 AM
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I'm wondering why/how students have clients.








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post #14 of 24 Old 02-14-2011, 12:08 PM
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I have done a lot of finishing in a professional setting but the limited amount of refinishing I have done has mostly been as a DIYer (besides the occasional strip and refinish for a client that changes their mind on color) so I guess I fit into the DIY category for this.

I haven't done much because once I found what a pain it is, I try to avoid it. If I really need to do it, I would definitely do it myself because I know how much it would cost to have somebody else do it. If I had the money I would probably have somebody else do it to be completely honest. I have bad shoulders so refinishing is a killer.
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post #15 of 24 Old 02-14-2011, 03:58 PM
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I've never lived in a house that had trim worth refinishing. I don't know that I've even ever visited a house with trim that was worth refinishing. I can't even think of a house that I've been in that had trim that wasn't painted.

Anyhoo, I guess if the trim was some nice stained oak or something and the poly was worn off, I'd consider refinishing it. But in that case, it'd probably just be some sanding, and wouldn't involve nasty chemical strippers.

So,

Quote:
Do you know how to prepare wood trim for refinishing?
Yes

If so, where did you learn how to do it?
Trial and Error

Have you ever refinished wood trim or furniture before?
Yes

If you wanted to refinish the trim in your house, would you consider doing it yourself?
No

If not, what would you say the biggest barrier to doing it yourself was?
Time, tools, space to do the work, and the fact that it's all painted - I'd just put a fresh coat of paint on it.
I think your survey is a bit vague. Maybe you could add some questions like, "Is your trim worth refinishing?" or "Do you know what kind of wood your trim is made of?"
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post #16 of 24 Old 02-18-2011, 12:11 AM
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im tired so my mi9nds a bit foggy, but sound like this "client" is looking for a feasibility study to see if a trim refinishing system would be a good seller and to what demographic to sell it too?

Gary
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-18-2011, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
I'm wondering why/how students have clients.










.
Goof morning.

It is not at all unusual for graduate schools to contract to individuals or companies to do studies/work for these people. In the great majority of situations it is the school who holds the contract and not the student. The branches of the military frequently contract with schools for specific studies.

In fact I am not even sure is a student could hold the contract.

Most of the time this work is done by graduate assistants who do the work. These assistants are students who are on the payroll of the school. They do some assistant teaching and other jobs as assigned.

A small effort as seen here would be unusual.

George

Last edited by GeorgeC; 02-18-2011 at 06:20 AM.
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-18-2011, 06:26 AM Thread Starter
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im tired so my mi9nds a bit foggy, but sound like this "client" is looking for a feasibility study to see if a trim refinishing system would be a good seller and to what demographic to sell it too?
Close. The program I'm in focuses on performance. In this class, we had to find a "client" that we would interact with as if we were already designers (nobody is paying us to do this, if that's what you're worried about, cabinetman). That client (the husband of one of my teammates, in this case) told us that he would like to pass on his experience to others by giving a class that taught people how to refinish wood. We took that, and broke it down a little further. We identified the expected performance (we want people to strip the old finish off of a wood surface to a point where it's ready to be refinished), identified the current performance (people are not stripping wood themselves), and were tasked to find out why people weren't doing it themselves.

The survey I posted was to gather data as to why people weren't doing it themselves. If the data showed that one of the reasons people don't do it themselves is because they don't know how, that would indicate that training would be appropriate. We understood that you guys on this forum are "subject matter experts" in this stuff, so we asked here. We also talked to other people in hardware store, at work, etc.

The next step, which we're working on now, is to identify some characteristics of the students, so that we can tailor the training to them. We're using a lot of the data we collected from the survey to do this, too.

If you want more information on the class, check out the course summary http://ipt.boisestate.edu/AboutProgr...nal_Design.pdf

Thanks again!
Jeff
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-18-2011, 07:13 AM
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Jeff

I think the reason this got a little torqued around is that "refinishing trim" and refinishing wood" are worlds apart.
If someone has a house of historic value or is in the Restoration process, then yes, they are going to refinish the trim in a house..... otherwise probably not.
Refinishing wood, as in a piece of furniture is another matter, due to size and scale of the project, so that where is "confusion" arises. Most of us have refinished a piece of furniture, I have quite a few, or will in the future, to preserve a family heirloom, a bargain found at a garage sale or trash picked, it's a matter of "value".

So, you might want to reword your assignment to include the more general aspects of refinishing, not specifically "trim"... bill

That client (the husband of one of my teammates, in this case) told us that he would like to pass on his experience to others by giving a class that taught people how to refinish wood. We took that, and broke it down a little further. We identified the expected performance (we want people to strip the old finish off of a wood surface to a point where it's ready to be refinished), identified the current performance (people are not stripping wood themselves), and were tasked to find out why people weren't doing it themselves.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-18-2011, 11:01 AM
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On important historical houses/buildings(and we've done a few,haha).....am really scratchin to think of a time we refinished in the sense of stripping.There may have been times when there would be partial strip downs,but that would be about repair and getting down to base material so the new add-on could be measured and subsequently attatched.

There was/is a cpl reasons for not stripping.The whole lead thing is real and historic preservation proffesionals had a sort of headstart on its removal,and containment.Think colonial Williamsburg in the 30's which obviously predates the johnny come lately EPA.As researchers(love or hate them is beside the point)became more "aware" of how these structures were living examples and conduits to the past,they had alot of say in the matter.As such,we really thought hard on the subject of "erasing" anything that would help future research.The fact that any erasing stirred up clouds of nasty-ness.....didn't take much arm twisting for us to think of ways for containment and ways around the problem.And we got along fine like this for goin on a hundred years.

So in Hist. pres world stripping is sort of a no-no.There are some really good paint research co's who can and do an excelent job of analysis.We've gone to the effort on several occasions......its sometimes required(funding)and other times its for our edification.Its a very long deep subject........not without pitfalls WRT who you're talking to.Many folks in the biz with agenda's,dontcha know.Finding someone to discuss it,professionally and with good intent(looking out for the community instead of any financial interest)and LOTS of experience ain't an easy task.Very best of luck,BW

Last edited by BWSmith; 02-18-2011 at 11:06 AM.
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