stair threads and floors, black walnut - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 Old 09-26-2011, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5
View Redblackviper's Photo Album My Photos
Question stair threads and floors, black walnut

Hey everyone, i have a project to do, it involves making stair treads out of one piece black walnut and living room floor.

This is for my sister and i wanna make it real nice, so the stair treads are trapezoid as in 18"x8"x48" and i need to make them one piece, question is will the boards survive the constant pounding and not break, also any suggestions one what glue to use to glue them down. The black walnut is mostly all 21"x1"x12' and s2s.

The living room floor (500 sq) is a little more difficult because that same black walnut that im using for the stairs i need to plane and cut to make random
4-8"x 3-5' lengths,
What should i do with the butt joints?
tongue and groove? lap? loose tongue and groove?

Also the floor is gonna get glue to concrete, should i seal the backside of the wood prior to gluing to concrete? Thanks for all your help.
Redblackviper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 09-26-2011, 08:28 AM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos

If you have never installed a wood floor I would suggest you get some help from a professional, or someone that has experience. There are a lot of do's and dont's. For specific info, like existing floor prep, vapor barriers, installing techniques, and finishing, do a Google search on installing wood flooring.

You will likely end up T&G'ing the pieces, and nailing to an add on substrate...not gluing to concrete.








.
cabinetman is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 09-26-2011, 09:10 AM
Senior Member
 
phinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central New York
Posts: 3,248
View phinds's Photo Album My Photos
I second cman's recommendation that you get professional help. You want a floor that will last a long time without problems and that's not really a job for a first-time DIY floor installation.

You can never have too much pepperoni on your pizza or own too many clamps.
www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/
phinds is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 Old 09-26-2011, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5
View Redblackviper's Photo Album My Photos
I'm not first time floor installer, but first time making my own floor and installing, the biggest issue is half the living room is travertine the other half needs to be black walnut, the tile is done so Must butt up against the tile so I can't put a substrate even if I want to. But in general is loose tounge and groove worse the actual tg? Reason I ask is simply loose tg would be easier for black walnut.
Redblackviper is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 09-26-2011, 11:11 AM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redblackviper View Post
I'm not first time floor installer, but first time making my own floor and installing, the biggest issue is half the living room is travertine the other half needs to be black walnut, the tile is done so Must butt up against the tile so I can't put a substrate even if I want to.
All the more reason to get advice from a professional that has the ability to view the project and conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redblackviper View Post
But in general is loose tounge and groove worse the actual tg? Reason I ask is simply loose tg would be easier for black walnut.
There is no general answer IMO, that would answer that question. Each method of T&G, or loose tenon (like a spline) would be based on a variety of conditions. Since you can't add a substrate, and since I doubt a flooring expert would recommend gluing solid wood to concrete, I would get an opinion on the installation from a professional that has run into this before.








.
cabinetman is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 09-26-2011, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5
View Redblackviper's Photo Album My Photos
There is a glue that I use acts like a vapor barrier and glues flooring to concrete, ok if I want to hire a professional clearly I would not go on a forum and ask for advice, forums are designed to help other people with their crazy ideas and regular stuff, if for one second you think the thought of hiring a professional floor guy didn't cross my mind well it did, buuut have you seen the crappy economy well can't afford to hire just yet.
Redblackviper is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 09-26-2011, 06:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Whittier, CA. USA
Posts: 344
View jlord's Photo Album My Photos
What about all the movement that Walnut is going to want to do thru out the seasons? The glue you have is probably meant for a composite floor & not meant for solid wood.

James
Whittier, CA.

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should!
jlord is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 09-27-2011, 02:45 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5
View Redblackviper's Photo Album My Photos
I'm not too concerned about movement two reasons
1 we r in central Cali we don't have too much problems with movement ( as far as I have noticed throughout the years)
2 I put in closed cell spray foam insulation,
There is NO air penetration into the house AND there is a built in dehumidifier which keeps a constant temp and humidity in the house.
My main question is the t&g what's the best fastest way to do it that works, I also plan on using titebond lll on all joints.
Redblackviper is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 09-27-2011, 03:55 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,567
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
consider posting here

http://www.contractortalk.com/f10/

These are flooring professionals and may have run into a condition like you have?

http://www.diychatroom.com/
Here is a DIY forum which may be of interest. Flooring is woodworking for sure, but not in the traditional sense...just sayin'

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-27-2011 at 03:58 AM.
woodnthings is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 09-27-2011, 04:45 AM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redblackviper View Post
I'm not too concerned about movement two reasons
1 we r in central Cali we don't have too much problems with movement ( as far as I have noticed throughout the years)
2 I put in closed cell spray foam insulation,
There is NO air penetration into the house AND there is a built in dehumidifier which keeps a constant temp and humidity in the house.
My main question is the t&g what's the best fastest way to do it that works, I also plan on using titebond lll on all joints.
You stated that the wood was 1", and you were going to plane it. You didn't say how thick you were going to make the flooring. So, I will generalize an answer to try to answer your question.

Since you said your tile was already installed, I'm assuming you want the wood flush to the tile. So, you will have to plane it to a thickness that will account for any substrating, which includes the thickness of the glue.

For T&G flooring, you will cut widths in several sizes (if you want random widths), and will wind up with various stacks of lumber for each width. A T&G will produce a "V" joint on one side and just a butted seam on the other. Like most jointed flooring the ends are also jointed, so there will be alignment.

For a 'loose tenon', that will be a spline. That's just machined with a slot cutting bit. The major difference will be that the surfaces for a spline cut aren't affected by the cut, like a T&G is. On a T&G, part of the face is beveled. In using splines you would have to cut up spline stock, bookoo feet of it.

And last, for a glue down, solid lumber would be difficult to compress to the glue over any size area at a time to get all the pieces flat. Furthermore, with all the wood being joined, if there is a lifting or a movement problem, its just not one piece that will do that, as you will be gluing all of it.








.
cabinetman is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 09-27-2011, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5
View Redblackviper's Photo Album My Photos
@cabinetman thanks
Redblackviper is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 09-27-2011, 07:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Whittier, CA. USA
Posts: 344
View jlord's Photo Album My Photos
A concrete floor can seep moisture up from below without some type of moisture barrier. I wouldn't just depend on the glue sealing it. I live in So. Cal. & it's generally dryer here than central Cal. & moisture can seep up thru the concrete especially plumbing leeks that develop under a concrete slab.

I have Travertine tile in my home & it is usually a little thicker than standard porcelain tile. How thick is the Travertine? Maybe you could plane the walnut down to 5/8" & use 3/8" substrate? Use transition strips between the different surfaces.

James
Whittier, CA.

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should!
jlord is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 09-27-2011, 07:30 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,567
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Back when..

Having tried engineered random plank floor by Bruce, and then ceramic tile over a 5" slab, with visqueen and 2" foam insulation...
I ended up using commercial vinyl tile on a 1/2" floating sheathing over 30# roofing paper.
It was a particle board of sorts but waterproof. What I did that was different was, I splined all the joints with 1/8" masonite strips in grooves on all the edges. This created a homgeneous layer of the substrate, but it was tricky to set the panels in up against doors and other obstacles. To this day I have no issues with buckling or separations. I used TB 2 applied liberally and let it cure 24 HRS then I sanded it with ROS, sealed it with a latex bonding agent. Then applied the adhesive for the vinyl tile.

What I'm getting at is if you can fasten a subtrate or even float one like I did, then resaw your walnut to 3/8" or so and then glue it down you will have a stable base for it. Just a thought. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-27-2011 at 08:06 PM.
woodnthings is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 09-27-2011, 07:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Whittier, CA. USA
Posts: 344
View jlord's Photo Album My Photos
If you can resaw your 1" to 3/8" as Bill suggest you will have twice as much flooring material.

James
Whittier, CA.

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should!
jlord is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I have a large Black Walnut Jackfre Forestry & Milling 6 12-15-2010 03:57 PM
Black Walnut Prices Jason W Forestry & Milling 11 01-21-2010 08:13 AM
Looking For Black Walnut Spindles GeorgeC General Woodworking Discussion 8 09-30-2008 06:34 AM
Black Walnut JMendez035 General Woodworking Discussion 7 06-04-2008 08:29 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome