Shallow depth china cabinet? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 01-24-2018, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Shallow depth china cabinet?

I'm need of more storage in my house and am considering building a builtin china cabinet. My dining room is located in an addition, meaning one of the interior walls used to be an exterior wall. Looking in from where I'd like to locate the cabinet, I have 0.5" drywall, 3.5" wood framing, ~1.5" air gap, 3.5" brick veneer, ~ 1" airgap, structural CMU block wall. If I were to remove the bricks, this would give me 9-10" to work with.

The best I can tell, nearly all wall cabinets are 12" in depth. Obviously, I can project the cabinet into the dinning room to achieve whatever depth I wanted. But the dining room is rather narrow, so I'd really prefer to minimize this.

How deep of a cabinet do I need to have useful storage? I realize I can't fit a dinner plate in a 9" deep cabinet, but it seems it would work fine for salad plates, bowls, cups, etc. Will I regret it if I build something less than the standard 12"?

Dan
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post #2 of 13 Old 01-25-2018, 06:05 AM
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You are asking your question in the wrong place. For the most this is a bunch of men on this forum.

Your wife is the one who needs to answer this question. She is the one who is going to use the cabinet and knows what size pieces she will put in there.

Plus, I have never heard of an extension where the brick was left on the outside wall.

George
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post #3 of 13 Old 01-25-2018, 06:10 AM
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OK, before you start taking out the exterior wall keep in mind it is probably a bearing wall. You may have to support the ceiling with a temporary wall before you demo the wall. Then you would have to re-frame the wall with 2x12 headers as though it were a door opening. Then have you given any thought as to how you are going to finish the wall back behind the cabinet? You may have to allow for the thickness of furring strips on the back of the cabinet plus the thickness of drywall.
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post #4 of 13 Old 01-25-2018, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
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Steve,

I appreciate your concern. I don't believe the wall in question is load bearing. I've been able to inspect the area by removing the bottom of a second story overhang and sighting down this wall. Second story floor joists run parallel to this wall, and there doesn't appear to be one directly over it. I think I all see above it is blocking to fix anchor the top plate. Construction appears similar to what what someone might build when finishing a basement, where you'd build a stud wall in front of an exterior wall. Obviously I'll get a better view when I remove drywall, and will evaluate if things are not what I expect.

I'm not sure I understand your questions bout the wall behind the cabinet. I was planning on using plywood for the cabinet back. I'd leave the CMU wall (which is structural). On far side of this wall is furring strips and drywall, but that wouldn't be touched.

George,

Several of the members here do have quite a bit of design experience, and an understanding of what is needed to make things functional.

I'm not sure what to say, the brick is definitely there. There are numerous "interesting" things that were done by whoever built this addition. One of the things I enjoy most about woodworking, is the ability to turn some of them into opportunities.
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post #5 of 13 Old 01-25-2018, 09:08 AM
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So there is a second story involved. You especially need to be careful taking out the section of wall. If there is a wall above the downstairs wall it very likely is a load bearing wall.
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post #6 of 13 Old 01-25-2018, 09:39 AM
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You can support 12 inch plates in a 9 inch cabinet if you place them vertically, display style. You can cut grooves (dados) or glue small strips to the shelves, to catch the bottom edges of the plates. You can't store much that way, but it works.
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post #7 of 13 Old 01-25-2018, 12:00 PM
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If it is an outside wall, it is a load bearing wall. Never seen/heard of one that was not.

Design experience is not what you need before you begin this project. What you need to know if whether or not the person who will use the result even wants something so limited. You may find you have no need of this project and find another way to get what you want.

George
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post #8 of 13 Old 01-25-2018, 12:20 PM
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I think you will need a 12” shelf minimum for a china cabinet.
Start your research with your own upper kitchen cabinets.
I don’t think you will be pleased with a built in for only cups and bowls.
It will be best to extend the cabinet out by 4 or 5 “ to get the depth you need.

Also, if the brick wall is exposed now, you can leave it in place and just cut-out for your new cabinet.
It may not be necessary to take out the entire brick wall.
You new cabinet probably will not go completely to the ceiling and it may not go completely to the floor.
Pictures would be helpful for more input.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #9 of 13 Old 01-25-2018, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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It seems I'm doing a really bad trying to describe this. I've attached a sketch of a cross section of the wall, as well as what is above and beneath it. Hopefully this helps. I should mention this will part of an much larger renovation which will be permitted/inspected. Other parts of this will involve an engineer, so if I or my inspector, has any doubts about where I want to cut out being load bearing I'll have him weigh in. But from where I can inspect, it really looks like there is only empty joist cavity above this wall.

Dan
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post #10 of 13 Old 01-25-2018, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
I think you will need a 12” shelf minimum for a china cabinet.
Start your research with your own upper kitchen cabinets.
I don’t think you will be pleased with a built in for only cups and bowls.
It will be best to extend the cabinet out by 4 or 5 “ to get the depth you need.

Also, if the brick wall is exposed now, you can leave it in place and just cut-out for your new cabinet.
It may not be necessary to take out the entire brick wall.
You new cabinet probably will not go completely to the ceiling and it may not go completely to the floor.
Pictures would be helpful for more input.
Thanks. I'm increasingly thinking your right about wanting the extra depth.

I'm trying to picture how I would have the cabinet come out from the wall, but not extend all the way to the floor, without looking weird. If anyone has an example of this, I'd like to see it.

I've attached a picture of the wall in question. I would remove the mirror. You can see a box out for upstairs plumbing near the ceiling towards the right. Not quite sure how to deal this either, whether to just keep the cabinet to the left of it, or keep the height under the box out (letting me center the cabinet on the wall).

I haven't decided on how wide to make it either.
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post #11 of 13 Old 01-26-2018, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LanterDan View Post
It seems I'm doing a really bad trying to describe this. I've attached a sketch of a cross section of the wall, as well as what is above and beneath it. Hopefully this helps. I should mention this will part of an much larger renovation which will be permitted/inspected. Other parts of this will involve an engineer, so if I or my inspector, has any doubts about where I want to cut out being load bearing I'll have him weigh in. But from where I can inspect, it really looks like there is only empty joist cavity above this wall.

Dan
OK, there is two walls there. That makes a difference and looks doable. I was picturing one wall where you were cutting through to the other space. It is possible to cut through both walls if more depth is needed however the second story would have to be supported before the demolition is begun.

I have taken out a load bearing wall before that was completely supporting the second story. I built temporary walls to support the upstairs and took out the wall, cut the second story floor joists and inserted a 10" steel I-beam and tied it all back together.
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post #12 of 13 Old 01-26-2018, 05:01 AM
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If your cabinet were to not be able to extend all they way to the floor or to the ceiling, the remedy is trim. Fabricate a built up baseboard at the floor and a built up crown at the top.

I would start by looking at what I want to store in the cabinet. How many items and how big are they? Once that was determined, then I'd finalize my depth on the cabinet. You may get by with an 11" deep cabinet. You may need 14".
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post #13 of 13 Old 01-26-2018, 03:49 PM
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The picture helps us see your plan much better.
I suggest you build the new cabinet the width of the mirror you remove.
Build from the floor with a toe-board on the bottom. Use matching molding at floor to match existing molding in room. Build with shelving 12” deep or more. If the cabinet sets out from the wall 4- 6” it will look fine. Build cabinet to the ceiling.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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