Raised Panel Kitchen Doors - Stave Width - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 Old 06-24-2015, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
Raised Panel Kitchen Doors - Stave Width

I'm getting ready to build kitchen cabinets for our home. They will be face frame cabinets with raised panel doors. Face frames and doors will be hard maple and finished with wood dye and a clear finish. In designing the actual panels that will sit in the door frames, I was trying to determine the width of the staves for the panel glue ups. I wanted to select stave widths for each door to minimize waste, however it appears a one size fits all isn't working out. As an example, if I select a stave width of 3.5", a narrow door may need 3 staves for the panel glue up, while a wider door may need 5 or 6, (with allowances for trimming to final panel size). I'm concerned that many staves in a single panel could look too busy.

What is common practice for stave width?
Should all panels in the kitchen have the same stave width for uniformity and consistent look across the cabinets, regardless of door width?
Should wider doors have wider staves, while narrow doors have narrow staves?
Is there a standard width that looks good overall, say 4" or 4.5"?

Sorry for all of the questions. I just want the cabinet doors to look good when the kitchen is finished.
Tom-G is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tom-G For This Useful Post:
Chrisayrescarpentry (08-24-2015)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 06-25-2015, 08:38 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
What do you mean by staves? Is it the frame of the door or the panels? It's not uncommon to make cabinet door panels 3 1/2" to 4 1/2" however I haven't seen anyone do it since the 1970's. It would look more modern if you would make the panels almost as wide as the door.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #3 of 21 Old 06-25-2015, 12:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,043
View Masterjer's Photo Album My Photos
Steve, I believe the OP is asking about the glue up for the panel. He will make a raised panel door, but needs to glue boards together to get the correct size for the panel. Do you make the boards the same width before doing the panel glue up? If so, is there a preferred width for the boards in the panel?
Masterjer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Masterjer For This Useful Post:
Tom-G (06-25-2015)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 21 Old 06-25-2015, 01:21 PM
Senior Member
 
MT Stringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Channelview, Tx
Posts: 2,644
View MT Stringer's Photo Album My Photos
I buy my material in 4/4 rough. The lumber is available at the lumber yard in various widths and lengths with 5 1/2 - 6 1/2 inch widths being most common. I try to maximize use of the material and never considered the width of the individual pieces. They look good to me and no complaints from SWMBO.

Hope this helps.
Mike
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-06-23 21.33.11.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	113.3 KB
ID:	169666  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-06-24 22.22.10.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	90.9 KB
ID:	169674  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2013-10-15 21.44.19.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	99.5 KB
ID:	169682  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2013-10-18 15.23.42.jpg
Views:	192
Size:	86.4 KB
ID:	169690  

MT Stringer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to MT Stringer For This Useful Post:
Tom-G (06-25-2015)
post #5 of 21 Old 06-25-2015, 02:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterjer View Post
Steve, I believe the OP is asking about the glue up for the panel. He will make a raised panel door, but needs to glue boards together to get the correct size for the panel. Do you make the boards the same width before doing the panel glue up? If so, is there a preferred width for the boards in the panel?
If that is the case then the objective should be to arrange the boards to where the grain matches and it's difficult to tell it's not one big wide board. The width of the individual boards in the panel doesn't matter.
Steve Neul is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Steve Neul For This Useful Post:
Tom-G (06-25-2015)
post #6 of 21 Old 06-25-2015, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterjer View Post
Steve, I believe the OP is asking about the glue up for the panel. He will make a raised panel door, but needs to glue boards together to get the correct size for the panel. Do you make the boards the same width before doing the panel glue up? If so, is there a preferred width for the boards in the panel?
Yes, this is what I was asking. Thank you for summarizing.
Tom-G is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 06-25-2015, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
All - thank you for the comments and the pictures.

Mike - I had purchased several wide 4/4 rough boards from a local supplier, but I was thinking they needed to be ripped narrower for stability (avoid cupping). Have you run into any problems with using 5" - 6" wide staves for the panel glue ups?

Steve - Thanks for mentioning grain match. I'll pay close attention to that!

Tom
Tom-G is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 06-25-2015, 04:00 PM
Senior Member
 
MT Stringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Channelview, Tx
Posts: 2,644
View MT Stringer's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-G View Post
All - thank you for the comments and the pictures.

Mike - I had purchased several wide 4/4 rough boards from a local supplier, but I was thinking they needed to be ripped narrower for stability (avoid cupping). Have you run into any problems with using 5" - 6" wide staves for the panel glue ups?

Steve - Thanks for mentioning grain match. I'll pay close attention to that!

Tom
I agree on the narrower width. 3 1/2 - 4 inches should be just about right.

If it were possible to rip off some 1 1/2 inch face frame material, or even 2 inch, then the rest could be used for the panels.

I normally make the railes and stiles 2 1/4 inches wide although, on occasion, I have made them narrower. I have to remember to leave enough material for the door hinges.

Here are two doors made from walnut that are 12 inches wide. I think I used three pieces. I can't find a picture of them in the clamps. I glued up the pieces, planed then down, then cut them to rough length. Then I cut them to their final length and adjusted the width until they fit properly by making several passes on the jointer (removing a little off the edge each pass).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1495.jpg
Views:	177
Size:	94.5 KB
ID:	169706  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2015-06-05 20.59.40.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	91.1 KB
ID:	169722  

Attached Images
 

Last edited by MT Stringer; 06-25-2015 at 04:03 PM.
MT Stringer is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 06-26-2015, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
Mike,

Those doors and cabinet are beautiful!

My face frame stiles and upper rails will be 2" and bottom rails 1 1/2". Stiles and rails for the doors will be 2 1/4". Great idea to rip one rail or stile stock from each of the wider boards and use the remainder for the panel glue ups. I can see how that will minimize waste.

Tom
Tom-G is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tom-G For This Useful Post:
MT Stringer (06-26-2015)
post #10 of 21 Old 08-07-2015, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
I have been doing the panel glue ups and ran into a problem. I have one panel that will be about 18 inches wide by 44 inches tall. I planed all of the wood (hard maple) about a week ago. I was aligning the boards to do the glue up and one board is bowed. If I clamp one end down, the other end is 5/8 of an inch in above the table.

Is it best just to mill a replacement board or if I clamp it to straighten it into the middle of the glue up will the overall panel keep it straight? The board is about 4 inches wide.
Tom-G is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old 08-08-2015, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
It was too much trouble to deal with so I milled a new piece. I'll cut the bowed piece into shorter pieces as needed.
Tom-G is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tom-G For This Useful Post:
MT Stringer (08-08-2015)
post #12 of 21 Old 08-08-2015, 06:35 PM
Senior Member
 
MT Stringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Channelview, Tx
Posts: 2,644
View MT Stringer's Photo Album My Photos
I think you did the best thing, Tom.
MT Stringer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to MT Stringer For This Useful Post:
Tom-G (08-11-2015)
post #13 of 21 Old 08-11-2015, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
That panel was too wide for my planer so I glued up two halves so that I just have the center seam to worry about. Discarding that bowed piece saved me both time, and the potential the whole panel could warp.

Overall the panels are looking good. Here is a picture of another panel where I did the two halves first. The center seam isn't glued yet. I'm using a glue line rip blade on my table saw and the seams are tight.

The only problem on this particular panel is some tear out. I'll be able to sand some of it out, but I'll need to fill an area where it is deeper. Any recommendation on what to fill it with? I need something that will accept water based dye.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-1547424866.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	76.2 KB
ID:	177489  


Last edited by Tom-G; 08-11-2015 at 09:32 PM.
Tom-G is offline  
post #14 of 21 Old 08-11-2015, 11:22 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-G View Post
The only problem on this particular panel is some tear out. I'll be able to sand some of it out, but I'll need to fill an area where it is deeper. Any recommendation on what .
Hard Maple has a particular 'direction' that it wants to run through a planer in.

If you glue up multiple strips and plan to run them through a planer later - You need to be sure all your Maple is pointed in the right direction before you glue it up...
OnealWoodworking is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
Yeah.... That didn't occur to me until I started having the tear out problem. The center board had the problem, so on the next pass I fed in the opposite end. The center board looked much better but the 2 side boards didn't! It's one of those experience things. To be sure, on my next glue up I'll be checking the grain direction!
Tom-G is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 08:40 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-G View Post
Yeah.... That didn't occur to me until I started having the tear out problem. The center board had the problem, so on the next pass I fed in the opposite end. The center board looked much better but the 2 side boards didn't! It's one of those experience things. To be sure, on my next glue up I'll be checking the grain direction!
You cant always tell by looking or feeling.

But you can DEFINITELY tell by sending the boards through the planer before glue up and taking off just the slightest bit. Watch them when they come out and mark them with an arrow in the direction they 'need' to run in.

This will save you a lot of time later...

I generally start with 13/16" material when doing stuff like this. The extra 1/16th is all I need to sort out all my direction stuff.

Best of luck with your project Sir.
OnealWoodworking is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OnealWoodworking For This Useful Post:
IowaDave (08-13-2015), Tom-G (08-12-2015)
post #17 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
That's a great tip. Thank you!
Tom-G is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 10:24 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-G View Post
That's a great tip. Thank you!
Just expanding on previous post here...

Some places you will buy your wood from - It will be sanded to thickness. Other (most places) places you buy from it will come planed. Most likely - The place you buy from that uses a planer is NOT using a special spiral / carbide cutterhead that can make perfect wood no matter the direction.

When it comes already planed to a particular thickness you can generally look at THEIR tearout patterns to get your direction stuff sorted out without a lot of trial and error. The tearout patterns are generally going to be a lot worse on the stuff you get from them because they likely have dull knives and just don't give a hoot so long as they get the 'thickness' part correct.

That can work to your advantage and speed you up determining the proper direction by noticing the tearout patterns on what you just bought. You may have no need to actually plane the stuff yourself 'first' just from looking at THEIR work.

Anything I get that is 'sanded' to thickness before delivery gets run through my planer before doing anything else IF it is any sort of 'directional' wood like hard Maple.

Wood bought that came done on a spiral cutterhead should be treated the same as 'sanded to thickness' material if you don't have your own special cutterhead.

OnealWoodworking is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 402
View Tom-G's Photo Album My Photos
The maple is rough sawn. I did notice the tear out when first planing each board. So once I figured out the proper planing direction for each one I stacked them all oriented so that I could just grab them and feed them into the planer.

After planing, when selecting boards for each panel, everything was mixed up. I wasn't thinking ahead and didn't keep track of or mark the boards.

I do have a spiral head planer but even taking a very light pass ( less that 1/64") I still get some tear out. I did rotate the cutters before starting this project to new edges. They are HHS. I was going to buy carbide replacement cutters but the supplier indicated the HHS cutters were better for hardwood. He said the angle the carbide ones are sharpened is for soft wood.

Anyway, I'm learning as I go. I do appreciate everyone's comments, tips, and guidance.
Tom-G is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 08-14-2015, 08:34 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Ask the guy what the actual angle is and make your own choice as to if it 'fits' your needs or not.


Defect-free pieces at cutting angles of: 5 10 15 20 25 30

Hard Maple -- -- 56 56 51 17
Soft Maple 43 61 57 33 34 18

(The Forest Products Laboratory at Madison, Wisconsin conducted a series of tests on the machining of Southern Hardwoods.)



OnealWoodworking is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to OnealWoodworking For This Useful Post:
Tom-G (08-15-2015)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help with raised panel doors mengtian General Woodworking Discussion 7 02-04-2015 08:19 PM
Raised Panel Cabinet Doors davecaw4 Joinery 10 01-14-2015 09:32 PM
Raised panel questioMy first time building raised panel arched-top cabinet doors anns dualquads General Woodworking Discussion 9 02-22-2013 09:50 AM
Raised Panel Doors Roger Manning Trim Carpentry & Built-Ins 20 02-26-2008 02:11 PM
raised panel tenon width robk1 Joinery 9 01-24-2007 10:40 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome