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post #1 of 26 Old 07-10-2010, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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panel molding help

Hi, my name is brian and i'm a novice at woodworking and this is my first post on the site i would have properly introduced myself but im in a bit of a hurry. I am in the process of putting in panel molding trim. They would look like this if you don't know what i mean



My problem is not putting them in on the level walls i can do that its 45 degree cuts all around, my problem is running them up the staircase like this .

I know that it is just a box slanted upward like a diamond my only problem is how do i figure out what the angle for the cuts should be in order to make it a box like that and how to cut them, any help is greatly appreciated thanks in advance!

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post #2 of 26 Old 07-10-2010, 02:19 PM
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An easy way to figure out the angles is to lay a straightedge along the stairs, and use a level to get a perpendicular line. Use a protractor to get the angle. If you are close, the acute angle (the one at the bottom of the stairs) less 180 degrees, will give you the obtuse angle.

In parallelograms, there are two acute (are =), and two obtuse (are =) angles and they all add up to 360 degrees.






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post #3 of 26 Old 07-10-2010, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the reply cabinetman could i get an angle finder and us it to find the angles because there is chair railing and baseboard that runs up the steps so i can get both angles, but the problem im trying to figure out is how to cut the obtuse angles??
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post #4 of 26 Old 07-10-2010, 05:24 PM
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I might tape a couple plumb boards to the wall top and bottom meas up whatever the height of the bottom of the parallel panel is on the same side of both, (top/top or bottom/bottom sides of the plumb board) and then snap a line across both. That gives you the cut on the top and bottom of the stiles, (vertical trim) and the rails, (trim paralleling stairs) which will always be less than 45deg

I don't have much faith in those angle finders for anything important.
Once the apron is in, (trim at risers and treads) everything else is a matter of duplicating height meas and snapping a line to it, (as long as the plumb bubble on your level is dead on) and your speed or bevel squares aren't mangled.

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post #5 of 26 Old 07-10-2010, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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sorry ghidrah you lost me in that one haha. but how would you cut the angles because they would be lets just say somewhere around 60 - 70 degrees idk exactly and my mitre saw only goes to 45. i have heard of using a block of wood and cutting it at 45 degrees and subtracting setting the mitre and whatever the difference would be but im not sure on exactly how to do that.
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post #6 of 26 Old 07-10-2010, 09:55 PM
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The acute angles if bisecting the angle will be less than 45°. The obtuse angle total is subtracted from 180°, and each angle of the pieces will be one half of that. Example: If the obtuse angle is 130°, that subtracted from 180° is 50°. If bisecting the angle, each piece would be 25°.






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post #7 of 26 Old 07-10-2010, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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i hope i understand what you mean cabinetman then i will have no problem doing this. Are you saying take the obtuse angle and say its 120 degress so i would do 180 - 120 giving me 60 degrees so i divide that by 2 and get 30 which would be the angle to cut. Then for the acute angles just take whatever it is and divide by 2 and then those are the angles to cut?
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post #8 of 26 Old 07-10-2010, 10:35 PM
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That's pretty much it. Try one of each angle with a scrap. Back in the stone age before fancy SCMS's and CMS's, on the job there may have been a wood miter box if I was lucky. I remember doing similar figuring and cuts but more simply by just laying out the pieces and drawing a bisecting line for the cut. Then have a go at it with a backsaw.






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post #9 of 26 Old 07-10-2010, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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haha i really appreciate it cabinetman, i can understand what you mean because my grandfather was a carpenter and he did everything the old fashioned way and it was amazing with the accuracy and skill he had.
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post #10 of 26 Old 07-11-2010, 11:34 AM
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There's nothing stopping you from striking a line of any angle on a piece of wood, offset it with a clamped straight edge and cutting it with a circ. Its how I do scarf joints.

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post #11 of 26 Old 07-30-2010, 08:11 PM
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For these type of cuts, I usually take a 5-6 inch wide scrap and cut it at 45 degrees to use as a fence on the miter saw. This way, you get a 45 degree miter with your saw set at zero.

Lets say you have a 70 degree acute angle to cut. The miter will be half that at 35 degrees. Just swing the miter angle over 10 degrees away from zero, then WATCH YOUR FINGERS.

Seriously, this brings the blade alot closer to your fingers than you're used to. It's not an unmanagable danger by any means, but just keep it in mind.

It will be alot easier to just cut a block at 45, put it against the saw's fence, and experiment with some scrap 'til you see the geometry for yourself...

Good luck!
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post #12 of 26 Old 07-31-2010, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy E View Post
For these type of cuts, I usually take a 5-6 inch wide scrap and cut it at 45 degrees to use as a fence on the miter saw. This way, you get a 45 degree miter with your saw set at zero.

Lets say you have a 70 degree acute angle to cut. The miter will be half that at 35 degrees. Just swing the miter angle over 10 degrees away from zero, then WATCH YOUR FINGERS.

Seriously, this brings the blade alot closer to your fingers than you're used to. It's not an unmanagable danger by any means, but just keep it in mind.

It will be alot easier to just cut a block at 45, put it against the saw's fence, and experiment with some scrap 'til you see the geometry for yourself...

Good luck!
I thought I was the only psycho who's always done it this way...that's why I usually don't comment when somebody wants to know how to cut these angles...not to mention none of my job-site miter saws have guards on them either.

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post #13 of 26 Old 08-01-2010, 10:19 AM
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An easy way to find the angle is to place your molding on the installation line, mark both edges, do the same on the adjoining piece, then mark the intersection, from long point to short point. Helps a lot to use some 1x2 scraps to test the fit before committing to the molding.
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post #14 of 26 Old 08-07-2010, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Alright i did manage to figure it out with the 45 degree piece of scrap, The way i did it was to find the acute angle you would take the obtuse angle and divide by 2 and there you go thats the acute angle mitre cuts but you need a 45 degree subfence, and vise-versa for the obtuse angle. So say my angles are 50 and 130, in order to cut the obtuse angles i would simply take the 50 and divide by 2 getting 25 and thats the miters. Then for the acute angle you take 130 and divide by 2 getting 65, but in order to cut 65 degrees on a normal miter saw you have to make a 45 degree piece of scrap for the fence like so
So really you only cut at 20 degrees because you're already at 45 with the sub fence.

So really simply it is:
Obtuse angle = acute angle / 2

Acute angle = (obtuse angle / 2) - 45 ***but need a 45 degree subfence***

Thank you to everyone that helped me figure this out especially cabinetman and FrankC, i really appreciate it all!

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post #15 of 26 Old 10-11-2010, 10:06 PM
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I'm looking to do this exact same thing up my stairs and in my hall way. However I have a bit of a dilemma on how to end/finish on the corner. Take a look at the attached picture. The red lines indicate where the chair rail will be. Do I need to do something on the corner to make it look complete? Such as running the chair rail up the hall way side of the corner and making the two connect? If you can provide any pictures that would be extremely helpful.

I'm also wanting to do it on the wall in the entry way and end it at the corner but again not sure what would look best on finishing it at the corner. Do I need to take the chair rail and run it vertically on the corner, or don't do the vertical and just miter the corner or cap it?
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post #16 of 26 Old 10-30-2010, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildeez
I'm looking to do this exact same thing up my stairs and in my hall way. However I have a bit of a dilemma on how to end/finish on the corner. Take a look at the attached picture. The red lines indicate where the chair rail will be. Do I need to do something on the corner to make it look complete? Such as running the chair rail up the hall way side of the corner and making the two connect? If you can provide any pictures that would be extremely helpful.

I'm also wanting to do it on the wall in the entry way and end it at the corner but again not sure what would look best on finishing it at the corner. Do I need to take the chair rail and run it vertically on the corner, or don't do the vertical and just miter the corner or cap it?
If your not running it any further then cut it short of the corner. Personally, I don't love the look. But it works.
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post #17 of 26 Old 10-30-2010, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by craftsman jay View Post
If your not running it any further then cut it short of the corner. Personally, I don't love the look. But it works.

What else doesn't look bad is to 45 degree the face of the end of the trim where it ends. Looks more like it belongs than just a straight cut.






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post #18 of 26 Old 10-30-2010, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftsman jay View Post
If your not running it any further then cut it short of the corner. Personally, I don't love the look. But it works.
Or make a return there.
Here is where a good looking corner mold serving as a kill for both molds would look good.

http://www.diychatroom.com/

BigJim

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post #19 of 26 Old 10-30-2010, 03:53 PM
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personally i would contenue it around the corner.
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post #20 of 26 Old 11-04-2010, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer1 View Post
An easy way to find the angle is to place your molding on the installation line, mark both edges, do the same on the adjoining piece, then mark the intersection, from long point to short point. Helps a lot to use some 1x2 scraps to test the fit before committing to the molding.
This

I don't have to do it often but instead of drawing it out, I take a few pieces of scrap and a speed square, you'll have your angle in a couple mins. I don't buy into the digital angle reader e.t.c. when you've learned this method.
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