Kitchen island shaker panels - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 02-20-2017, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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Kitchen island shaker panels

Freshly married, the wife and I just purchased our first home. I'm getting into woodworking and general handyman type things and loving it so far.
I went out on a limb and purchased two used base cabinets from a local cabinet store. I fastened them together and put a plywood top on them. The backs and sides have been sitting bare for a month or so now while we decided what style surround we wanted on them. We decided to go with a shaker style, mainly because I thought it would be easy enough for a novice like me to perfect.

I got the back on, then the sides. Everything looks beautiful. I spent last night and today filling with wood filler, sanding, and repeating. As I'm sitting there tonight admiring my handy work I noticed that I've made a pretty big mistake and I'm near heartbroken...

The face of the cabinets stick out about 5mm further than the sides of the cabinets. This actually worked out perfectly for me (I thought) because the plywood I'm using to make the panels is 5mm thick and fit snugly and flush up against the lip created from the face of the cabinets.

However, while sitting back and looking at the sides today, I noticed that now the piece of trim butted against this lip is now wider than it's pair because the lip is adding width to the trim.

Does that make any sense? If not, see pic:



The right vertical trim is now 3/4" wider than the left vertical. Do I have to remove the left vertical trim and rip 3/4" off of it? I've already tacked it down and completely filled and sanded it. If there is another option other than ripping it off I'd love to hear it. The only thing I can think of is to add some sort of trim to that lip but I think that would probably make it look uneven and result in the same look.
If anyone has any advice it would be much appreciated!

Thanks guys.
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post #2 of 21 Old 02-20-2017, 10:20 PM
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What does the front look like?
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post #3 of 21 Old 02-20-2017, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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What does the front look like?


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post #4 of 21 Old 02-20-2017, 11:03 PM
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Looks to me like you need to rip a narrow piece and add it to the board that is the narrowest. Sand fill any cracks and you should be good to go.

Are you going to change out the doors and drawer fronts to shaker style also?

Like these? This is a kitchen we remodeled with all new doors and drawer fronts and the "L" shape was wrapped in poplar just like you did.
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post #5 of 21 Old 02-21-2017, 09:02 AM
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Generally, you make the stile that butts against the face frame 3/4" narrower, so they look even when you put the panel on.

In this case, I think you should leave it. Very few people will notice beyond woodworkers and cabinet makers.

I think you said the back is already on? If not, you could make the back's right stile wide enough so that it would also add 3/4" to the side panel's left stile.
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post #6 of 21 Old 02-21-2017, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sanchez View Post
Generally, you make the stile that butts against the face frame 3/4" narrower, so they look even when you put the panel on.

In this case, I think you should leave it. Very few people will notice beyond woodworkers and cabinet makers.

I think you said the back is already on? If not, you could make the back's right stile wide enough so that it would also add 3/4" to the side panel's left stile.

Unfortunately the back is already on, yes. The OCD in me wants to remove the wider side and rip is 3/4" narrower but I think that will just be too much work for something, like you said, not many people will ever notice.

Thanks for all the tips guys.
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post #7 of 21 Old 02-21-2017, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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The 3/4" piece fit nicely on the left, narrower, side and I don't think anyone will really notice. Looking forward to getting home to slap some primer on it tonight!

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post #8 of 21 Old 02-21-2017, 06:56 PM
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That's a good fix. I didn't even think about simply adding a 3/4" strip to the inside of the stile!
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post #9 of 21 Old 02-21-2017, 08:45 PM
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Wood Novice,
It seems you've resolved your initial concerns.
Here's something else to consider.
Look at imbalance on the molding on the bottom. Note how the molding is shorter on the right side because it stops at the toe cutout. In an effort to balance this out, I like to use about a 4" X 4" block. (A square the size of your toe-kick on each end of the cabinet. This lets you wrap your molding around the corners.
Just a suggestion to keep in mind for next time.
Good job overall. Well done.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #10 of 21 Old 02-22-2017, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
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Wood Novice,
It seems you've resolved your initial concerns.
Here's something else to consider.
Look at imbalance on the molding on the bottom. Note how the molding is shorter on the right side because it stops at the toe cutout. In an effort to balance this out, I like to use about a 4" X 4" block. (A square the size of your toe-kick on each end of the cabinet. This lets you wrap your molding around the corners.
Just a suggestion to keep in mind for next time.
Good job overall. Well done.
Thanks :)

I've been wondering about that as well. I had intended to wrap the support box frame as it currently sits, recessed 4 or so inches. I know you would really be able to ever see the trim under the cabinets but wasn't sure how else to really handle it.

Are you proposing that I simply wrap a 4x4 with trim on either side with nothing in between them at all?

Attached is a pic from tonight after two coats of primer. The seams are as invisible as I had hoped. I should have used varying grits of sandpaper to feather the edges on the filler a bit more I suspect. I feel dumb for being impatient and only using 80 grit.

Is there a preferred wood filler that is better than the typical elmers type?
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post #11 of 21 Old 02-22-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by WoodNovice View Post
Thanks :)

I've been wondering about that as well. I had intended to wrap the support box frame as it currently sits, recessed 4 or so inches. I know you would really be able to ever see the trim under the cabinets but wasn't sure how else to really handle it.

Are you proposing that I simply wrap a 4x4 with trim on either side with nothing in between them at all?

Attached is a pic from tonight after two coats of primer. The seams are as invisible as I had hoped. I should have used varying grits of sandpaper to feather the edges on the filler a bit more I suspect. I feel dumb for being impatient and only using 80 grit.

Is there a preferred wood filler that is better than the typical elmers type?
Your cabinet looks good. I wouldn't make changes.
When making an island cabinet, I don't cut the toe-kick into the side panels. Or if I do, I cut it completely around the cabinet on all sides just to make the ends look Symmetrical. A balanced look from the end view.
I make a 4" boxed corner on the front bottom corners of 3/4" ply. It will sometimes be covered with molding but sometimes not. I usually cut the inside corners at a 45 into the toe-kick. A 4" box on the corners with the inside 45'd into the front toe-kick. This is just a decorative detail to to allow the two sides to come down balanced without the toe-kick showing from the sides. The boxed front corners give a detail to the front of the cabinet I like. Everyone has their own preferences.
Again, good job on your cabinet.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #12 of 21 Old 02-23-2017, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Your cabinet looks good. I wouldn't make changes.
When making an island cabinet, I don't cut the toe-kick into the side panels. Or if I do, I cut it completely around the cabinet on all sides just to make the ends look Symmetrical. A balanced look from the end view.
I make a 4" boxed corner on the front bottom corners of 3/4" ply. It will sometimes be covered with molding but sometimes not. I usually cut the inside corners at a 45 into the toe-kick. A 4" box on the corners with the inside 45'd into the front toe-kick. This is just a decorative detail to to allow the two sides to come down balanced without the toe-kick showing from the sides. The boxed front corners give a detail to the front of the cabinet I like. Everyone has their own preferences.
Again, good job on your cabinet.
Do you have any pictures of what you're describing? Honestly, I had to google what a toe-kick was and now that you've pointed it out, I have to fix it or it will drive me nuts!

Something like this?


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post #13 of 21 Old 02-24-2017, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodNovice View Post
Do you have any pictures of what you're describing? Honestly, I had to google what a toe-kick was and now that you've pointed it out, I have to fix it or it will drive me nuts!

Something like this?

Yes, the picture you posted is a great example of wrapping the ends.
The front still has a toe-board which is very important. You don't want to build a kitchen cabinet without a toe-board. But the end view still offers a balanced, symmetrical look which I prefer.
As mentioned above, I use 3/4" plywood to box the corners. It's not hard to do. When molding is applied, I stop the molding wrap at the toe-board. In some cases I still apply a small shoe molding inside the toe-kick if needed.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #14 of 21 Old 02-24-2017, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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I use 3/4" plywood to box the corners.
Forgive me if these are dumb questions, like I said, I'm brand new at this.

When you box in the corners using 3/4" plywood, how do you prevent the bottom area from just getting kicked in? As in, how do you anchor the plywood box to the cabinets themselves? I had planned on getting a 4x4 and cutting it down to 2 3/8" x 2 3/8" x 5 1/4" so that it would fit perfectly into the corners and up inside the toe-kick overhang some. Then using the 3/4" plywood nailed into this to secure it. After that I would wrap with the baseboard and quarter-round. Am I making this more difficult than it should be somehow?

Also, a little off topic, but which power tool is best for cutting the 45-degree angels into the baseboards? I have a table saw, compound miter saw. and a circular hand saw. The baseboards are 4 1/4" by the way.

Thank for all the help!
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post #15 of 21 Old 02-24-2017, 05:15 PM
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The only dumb question is the one not asked- Dad
Congrats to the newlyweds. Many years of happiness to you. My wife and I will be looking at 45 years this June.
My complements on tackling these projects. One is very satisfied when you see the results of the time and effort used to make something for the home. It makes it a bit more personal than buying something and putting it in the house.Thanks for the pictures!
Thought- there is a big difference between a house and a home.

A diamond is how coal reacts under pressure.
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-24-2017, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WoodNovice View Post
Forgive me if these are dumb questions, like I said, I'm brand new at this.

When you box in the corners using 3/4" plywood, how do you prevent the bottom area from just getting kicked in? As in, how do you anchor the plywood box to the cabinets themselves? I had planned on getting a 4x4 and cutting it down to 2 3/8" x 2 3/8" x 5 1/4" so that it would fit perfectly into the corners and up inside the toe-kick overhang some. Then using the 3/4" plywood nailed into this to secure it. After that I would wrap with the baseboard and quarter-round. Am I making this more difficult than it should be somehow?

Also, a little off topic, but which power tool is best for cutting the 45-degree angels into the baseboards? I have a table saw, compound miter saw. and a circular hand saw. The baseboards are 4 1/4" by the way.

Thank for all the help!
When I'm making a decorative corner, I plan it from the beginning, so my end corners are not cut out. Instead, I mark the height of the toe-kick on the end panels and cut a 45 degree cut up to the line. (Approx 4"). I nail a 4" X 2 1/2" scab in the front corner of the toe-board. This gives me a 3/4" edge to nail the back of the box to.
Looking from the front of the cabinet, the front of the 4" box is cut with two 45 degree angles. When using 3/4" thick wood, the 2 1/2" + 3/4" + 3/4" = 4".
I use an 18 gauge pneumatic nailer with glue on the joints and I've never had one come loose.
The 4 x 4 can work I guess, I've never done it that way. If you do it that way, I would still glue it.
For cutting 45's, I prefer to use my Miter saw. They can be cut standing up on my saw. They can also be cut on the table saw, but they have to be cut lying down with the blade tilted 45. it's more dangerous with little short pieces. Definitely not the circular saw.

If you finish out your island as is it will be fine. Keep this change in mind for another day. I don't want to add to your difficulty.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #17 of 21 Old 02-25-2017, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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When I'm making a decorative corner, I plan it from the beginning, so my end corners are not cut out. Instead, I mark the height of the toe-kick on the end panels and cut a 45 degree cut up to the line. (Approx 4"). I nail a 4" X 2 1/2" scab in the front corner of the toe-board. This gives me a 3/4" edge to nail the back of the box to.
Looking from the front of the cabinet, the front of the 4" box is cut with two 45 degree angles. When using 3/4" thick wood, the 2 1/2" + 3/4" + 3/4" = 4".
I use an 18 gauge pneumatic nailer with glue on the joints and I've never had one come loose.
The 4 x 4 can work I guess, I've never done it that way. If you do it that way, I would still glue it.
For cutting 45's, I prefer to use my Miter saw. They can be cut standing up on my saw. They can also be cut on the table saw, but they have to be cut lying down with the blade tilted 45. it's more dangerous with little short pieces. Definitely not the circular saw.

If you finish out your island as is it will be fine. Keep this change in mind for another day. I don't want to add to your difficulty.
No difficulty added, no worries. I'm all about learning new things and I can't let myself finish something one way when I know I can complete it a better way. :)

I probably went overboard with the toe-kick area but I had scrap 3/4" plywood laying around so I put it to use.



However, like I said before, these baseboards are kicking my ass for some reason.

They are 4 1/4" tall so I can't cut them vertically on my miter saw. When I try to lay them flat, my miter saw won't tilt to the full 45* angle? It has it listed as an option, but the saw won't tilt that far? I'm a bit confused by this as well.

Picture:



(I have a Hitachi C10FCH2 15-Amp 10-inch Single Bevel Compound Miter Saw with Laser Marker)

Also, for one they are long and cumbersome making them hard to work with on the table saw, and two, I cannot gauge where to start the cut on the table saw really. I know I'm over thinking this and making it more difficult than it should be but I've cut short and ruined three 8' baseboards now in attempts to cut them down to 60".

My table saw: DEWALT DW745 10-Inch Compact Job-Site Table Saw with 20-Inch Max Rip Capacity

Last edited by WoodNovice; 02-25-2017 at 09:01 AM. Reason: added pics, spelling
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post #18 of 21 Old 02-25-2017, 09:16 AM
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On your miter saw is it the motor that gets in the way of cutting them flat against the fence? I have the same issue with my 10" saw and tall baseboards.

Use only the left side of your miter saw. Try to cut the baseboards 1" long while they are laying flat. Then you should be able to stand them up and cut the 45° end. You'll have to cut the right side of the miter with the face of the baseboard against the fence, and the saw turned to the left 45 mark.

Learn how to cope your inside corners. It's much easier than inside miters.

As far as the saw not tilting far enough, there are two things. 1- Don't trust that the built in bevel is accurate. 2-You can adjust the stop on the saw so it does tilt to an accurate 45°. You'll see a little bolt on the base of the saw on the left side of the hinge. It's the 45°stop, and it stops your saw from tilting past 45°. It should be just like the one in your picture, which is the 90°stop. Set them both with an accurate combination square set on the deck and touching the blade; try to avoid touching the teeth.

Last edited by sanchez; 02-25-2017 at 09:21 AM.
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post #19 of 21 Old 02-25-2017, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, I figured it out.

It seems like it was just a manufacturer's defect in the bevel scale. When completely upright the scale was past the 0° mark so naturally when it should have been on 45° it was actually a bit less. After cutting at this angel and then measuring with an angle finder we are dead on 45°. :D

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post #20 of 21 Old 02-25-2017, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Boom!! Pretty happy with myself right now haha :D




If I did it again I would make two individual panels on the back side to look more similar to the sides but that's for the next project I suppose.
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