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post #1 of 32 Old 03-14-2012, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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how to make this trim?

Since I can't find it at any of the suppliers around here, I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to make this trim? It's used on all the door and windows in my house (except the new ones i've put in which i'd like to match). I can't find a bit that would do it so i was wondering if it would take two different bits maybe...one for the middle profile and a chamfer on the end.
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post #2 of 32 Old 03-14-2012, 08:56 PM
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I'm pretty sure it's not a special bit. It appears to just be an ogee cutter on a tilting arbor shaper...

Check with a local millshop about a custom run if you HAVE to have it.

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post #3 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 02:36 AM
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Here is a link for a router bit to make the base cap.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000R4EAGE/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=10496270745&hvpos=1t2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=648380111235187080&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&ref=pd_sl_4fst3hvua8_e

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post #4 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 11:13 AM
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Well the correct way to make a piece of molding like that is with a molder. Problem is a company will charge hundreds of dollars for the first foot for tooling and so much a foot. A cabinet shop can also do this but it might take two sets of knives depending on the width of the profile. They will also charge a lot of money for tooling and so much a foot. For a do it yourselfer you can use a three wing cutter available in many places you can use on a table saw. You can get blank blades and grind your own profile on the blades. It is hard to do to grind three blades alike but if you are patient and carefully measure can be done. The next problem is the knives on a three wing cutter will only cut 1" wide. You would need to make probably 3 sets of knives to do this and when in operation will leave a mark where the cuts overlap. This means a lot of sanding. I think it would be easier to demo all the molding in the house and replace it with some that was available at your local supplier. This is usually what I do when a customer wants some antique molding reproduced. Just for reference, if you came to my shop and wanted me to make that molding I would charge $525.00 for tooling and $3.00 per ft with a min. 50' order provided the profile is 3" or less. A lot of that is the steel for the blades. The shaper steel I use runs $23.00 an inch and it would take two blades 3 1/2" to 4" long.
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post #5 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul
Well the correct way to make a piece of molding like that is with a molder. Problem is a company will charge hundreds of dollars for the first foot for tooling and so much a foot. A cabinet shop can also do this but it might take two sets of knives depending on the width of the profile. They will also charge a lot of money for tooling and so much a foot. For a do it yourselfer you can use a three wing cutter available in many places you can use on a table saw. You can get blank blades and grind your own profile on the blades. It is hard to do to grind three blades alike but if you are patient and carefully measure can be done. The next problem is the knives on a three wing cutter will only cut 1" wide. You would need to make probably 3 sets of knives to do this and when in operation will leave a mark where the cuts overlap. This means a lot of sanding. I think it would be easier to demo all the molding in the house and replace it with some that was available at your local supplier. This is usually what I do when a customer wants some antique molding reproduced. Just for reference, if you came to my shop and wanted me to make that molding I would charge $525.00 for tooling and $3.00 per ft with a min. 50' order provided the profile is 3" or less. A lot of that is the steel for the blades. The shaper steel I use runs $23.00 an inch and it would take two blades 3 1/2" to 4" long.
Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman... Is that the craftsman head you are using?

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post #6 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by firemedic View Post
Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman...
+1.





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post #7 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemedic View Post
Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman... Is that the craftsman head you are using?

...build n burn - live n learn...
+2

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post #8 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Check with a local millshop about a custom run if you HAVE to have it.
Thanks boudreaux....I called a local shop here and they said they could reproduce it, just waiting on cost. It's a pretty popular profile around here i older homes. I know my church has it but it's much larger scale since their doors are about 10ft. They thought they may have already done it for another customer previously so maybe the cost wont be too bad.

Quote:
Here is a link for a router bit to make the base cap.
I actually looked that that bit a while back as the closest i could find to match but thought maybe that curve profile on the end might cut too deep and just not get the same look. But i looked more today and maybe it could be an alternative if the lumber yard is too costly.

Quote:
Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman... Is that the craftsman head you are using?
+3, but more of a Huuuuuuh? I'm lost on that one, but i do appreciate the input!
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post #9 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 07:47 PM
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Take a slice off your existing molding

It needs only be a 1/2" wide or so and use that as the template for a drawing, and just trace around it. You can then build a series of profiles using common router bits or shaper cutters or even the Craftsman molding head shown above.
http://ptreeusa.com/freud_wide_crown_system.htm
You will be able to get pretty close.

A tilting arbor shaper may be a stretch, it's pretty specialized equipment...

You may find someone with a Woodmaster molder who has a similar cutter to make a limited run. Check the Woodmaster site for their profiles and the number associated with them.
http://www.woodmastermoldingknives.com/stock.cfm


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 03-15-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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post #10 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chsdiyer
Thanks boudreaux....
eh heh... Someone been down here before

FYI, I prefer to be Thibodaux... He's usually the smarter feller in the joke

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post #11 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 07:09 AM
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Most,if not all...millshops here charge an hour @ regular "shoprate" for setting up a moulder.Then you work out a per foot price.So the customer simply does the math....and decides for themselves if thats the approach they want to take.

On a personal note,we've found that 100' is usually where the demarcation spot is for our shop.IOWs....up to a hundred we'll usually make it inhouse.Grinding cutters or mixin/matching exist profiles.Once we need more than a hundred....we'll farm it out.Its like planing....doing it yourself vs having planer mills contracting it.Everyones shop profile is going to be different.The sooner you get a handle on the above the quicker you become in that decision part of the process.


Best of luck,BW

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post #12 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 07:19 AM
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Mark Profile on Edge of board raise Table Saw blade and run in steps to lines. Make a WOODNTHINGS Special Scratch See his thread and Sand
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Well the correct way to make a piece of molding like that is with a molder. Problem is a company will charge hundreds of dollars for the first foot for tooling and so much a foot. A cabinet shop can also do this but it might take two sets of knives depending on the width of the profile. They will also charge a lot of money for tooling and so much a foot. For a do it yourselfer you can use a three wing cutter available in many places you can use on a table saw. You can get blank blades and grind your own profile on the blades. It is hard to do to grind three blades alike but if you are patient and carefully measure can be done. The next problem is the knives on a three wing cutter will only cut 1" wide. You would need to make probably 3 sets of knives to do this and when in operation will leave a mark where the cuts overlap. This means a lot of sanding. I think it would be easier to demo all the molding in the house and replace it with some that was available at your local supplier. This is usually what I do when a customer wants some antique molding reproduced. Just for reference, if you came to my shop and wanted me to make that molding I would charge $525.00 for tooling and $3.00 per ft with a min. 50' order provided the profile is 3" or less. A lot of that is the steel for the blades. The shaper steel I use runs $23.00 an inch and it would take two blades 3 1/2" to 4" long.
i'm with you steve,you were exactly right. btdt. i have several packs of the "blanks" left for custom grinding work.
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post #14 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by chsdiyer View Post
Since I can't find it at any of the suppliers around here,
What suppliers Homeboy and Louz?
The sketch you drew is a Brosco 8465 1-3/4" band molding often referred to as clapboard molding.

Hope this helps.

Prices and availability may vary in different parts of the world....

Learning more about tools everyday
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post #15 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by firemedic View Post
Uhhhh... I'd be really impressed to see some of the knives you made for that craftsman... Is that the craftsman head you are using?

...build n burn - live n learn...
The knives I have are nothing to show, actually more of an embarrassment but here are most of them. I purchased the cutter head about 30 years ago and use it every two or three years which accounts for the rust. I avoid the thing because you have to use it real slow to get decent molding out of it. I normally only use it when I need a profile that is on a board too wide to run it on my shaper. I did use it a couple of weeks ago. I had a customer that had me replace some cedar shakes on the side of her house that had a lot of grooves on it. It was easier for me to run grooves on plain shakes than track down a supplier for the actual siding.
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post #16 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul

The knives I have are nothing to show, actually more of an embarrassment but here are most of them. I purchased the cutter head about 30 years ago and use it every two or three years which accounts for the rust. I avoid the thing because you have to use it real slow to get decent molding out of it. I normally only use it when I need a profile that is on a board too wide to run it on my shaper. I did use it a couple of weeks ago. I had a customer that had me replace some cedar shakes on the side of her house that had a lot of grooves on it. It was easier for me to run grooves on plain shakes than track down a supplier for the actual siding.
That's pretty cool steve! Are you running the single knife head or the three knife?

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post #17 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 08:49 AM
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That's pretty cool steve! Are you running the single knife head or the three knife?

...build n burn - live n learn...
Before I got a shaper I bought a single head cutter and didn't like it at all. I was trying to go into business and I was not getting very professional looking results. For one thing I was trying to use it on my radial arm saw turned vertical to make the panels on raised panel doors. Then I purchased the three wing cutter and used that until I bought the shaper. Now when there is something I can't run on my shaper I am more likely to use the single cutter just because I'm too lazy to make three knives and because it usually involves less than 20' of molding. If the job called for a lot of footage or I thought I would make more on another occasion there is no question I would use the three wing cutter. Right now most of the blades I have, have be recycled to other profiles for the single cutter. I believe I used one of the cabinet door coping knives for the wood shingle knife in the picture. There is no chance I would attempt to make cabinet doors with that three wing cutter again. I would either buy a router bit set or buy someone elses doors.
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post #18 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
The knives I have are nothing to show, actually more of an embarrassment but here are most of them. I purchased the cutter head about 30 years ago and use it every two or three years which accounts for the rust. I avoid the thing because you have to use it real slow to get decent molding out of it. I normally only use it when I need a profile that is on a board too wide to run it on my shaper. I did use it a couple of weeks ago. I had a customer that had me replace some cedar shakes on the side of her house that had a lot of grooves on it. It was easier for me to run grooves on plain shakes than track down a supplier for the actual siding.
I agree, that is cool, I apologize for doubting you.

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post #19 of 32 Old 03-18-2012, 01:16 AM
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40 years ago I watched an elderly craftsman make similar molding pieces by hand. Very tedious, but once stained, impossible to tell which was original and which he made. You can cut it close on a table saw and finish with a scraper if you have plenty of time. I made a few small pieces for my house that way.

Flooring installer for 40 years
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post #20 of 32 Old 03-18-2012, 10:32 AM
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40 years ago I watched an elderly craftsman make similar molding pieces by hand. Very tedious, but once stained, impossible to tell which was original and which he made. You can cut it close on a table saw and finish with a scraper if you have plenty of time. I made a few small pieces for my house that way.
What I would like to see is someone make molding with one of those hand plane type molders. I see them in antiques shops but I'm too cheap to buy one and give it a try. It's the same principal but that's got to be awful spending hours to make a piece of molding.
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