How did they make this casing? - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 07:15 PM
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This thread really got inside my head and just wouldn't leave me alone,
I had ideas of spindle moulders with a nodding head and feeders synchronised to the spindle but it really just got to much.

I could be miles out but here`s how I see it, the wood it`s self started to give me Idea`s.When you look at the cross section of the moulded piece from the centre line out you can see that one side is a mirror image of the other.That tells me that the same knife was used to do both sides up to the straight bead first one pass then turn the piece over and then the second pass so far logical.

BTW if you look at the wavy bead you can see that it`s not actually round where it joins the wood it`s not a sharp shoulder it sweeps into the wood,that's good because it fits in with what I`m thinking.

Another BTW is the straight bead is lower than the field and that's deliberate but will become clear later.

When you look at the casing face on the two wavy beads do not run parallel to each other one is slightly ahead of the other why was that?

It was then that it come to me how it was done IMHO,The waves had to be done like that to produce (for want of a better description) the feathered detail in the middle of the field.

Remember I do not have the knives that produced the original moulding I`m just trying to understand the method that was used to produce it.

I made a pretty rustic mock up and this is how it went.
First I made a template with waves in it every wave had to be the same size.Then a false fence then with a dowel jig drilled holes and hammered the dowels in the fence screwed the jig to the bottom of the piece and did the first pass the template and the dowels made the piece rise and fall as it passed over the knives.

Took the template off and fastened it ,off set to the other side of the piece turned it over and passed it through again.

The last pic was from a off cut of a piece of construction pine not the best of woods to mill but I think it shows the contrast better.


Did it work thats not for me to judge.I know this is a long post and a lot of people wont read it but it would be interesting to know what every one thinks.

Two more pics to come.
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post #22 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 07:18 PM
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One more pic.
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post #23 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 09:25 PM
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They probably used a trim press, a large cast iron wheel that had that pattern cast into the wheel.
Then the wood/trim piece was run through the machine, pressing the outer part down and leaving that pattern.
Pine was normally used as it was/is soft.
Woodmaster Tools used to sell a machine that was made for this. Several different wheels/patterns were available.
Did a search and cannot find a pic of one, but used to see them in their catalogs several years back.

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post #24 of 31 Old 05-03-2011, 06:04 PM
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@Billy De:

I'm thinking smaller diameter cutter on an axis that also changes yaw. I've never seen one of those though.

If not I'm left with a host of really tiny bits as the only option I can see..

@Steve Clardy:

We know that the moulding in question is oak.
Even if it was softwood I would think it's too deep to be pressed.
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post #25 of 31 Old 05-03-2011, 07:47 PM
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There is an old wood lathe that has been out of spec for many years. I have only seen one. It did/does a lot of complicated milling and lathing that we can now only do via CNC work.
It had a complicated system that enabled multiple cuts. I remember some time ago it was written up in a magazine, too. It did a lot of the complicated boxes that are now molded.
It is beautiful and I wish you luck. My suggestion, get yourself a CNC wood router and duplicate it with that. It will save you tons of money on complicated tooling and you can reproduce it for other areas of your home. Wouldn't mind having some of that myself. Good luck
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post #26 of 31 Old 05-04-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy De View Post
One more pic.
Yes, rough example, but I think you're completely on the right track. Quite a puzzle, eh?

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post #27 of 31 Old 05-08-2011, 09:40 PM
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Stefflus you mention yaw in away your right,but the spindle moulder does not move, but the stock does up and down.

your comment made me realise that I had not posted pics with the

stock fastened to the template riding on the dowels.So here you go.



Mr Woodworking thanks for the encouragement puzzling well yes and no.Like most clever things it`s really very simple,the key to it all is to not think in lines but in bands(the width of the knives).

I thought the best way to explain how I think it was all done was to make some drawings of the process.




Fist drawing shows the shape produced on the first pass with the stock fastened to the template.

The template is then removed and fastened to the other side of the stock, but not in the same position it`s moved along slightly this is impotent to understand.
So in affect what happens now is the stock is up side down and fed past the spindle moulder.

Really clever the second pass not only produces a profile but is used to remove part of the original profile,there by creating a completely different profile (IE the feather).

The next drawing shows the path of the top of the knife as it pass`s over the original profile.The shaded area is the part of the original profile that is removed.

Both knives not only produce a wave at the centre of the stock but also towards the outside edge of the stock.

This wave is impotent because it determines where the sunken bead and edge profile will be placed on the stock.


I shall have to make another post because I`v posted the max pics on this, one so back in a min.
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post #28 of 31 Old 05-08-2011, 10:04 PM
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Cross section A-A and B-B show the hight and depth of the wave produced at the bottom of the knife,the dotted line shows the sunken bead and the fluted section yet to be produced.

The next drawing shows the possible profiles of the knives used.


The last drawing shows the whole thing together.

I must admire the original guy who`s ingenuity allowed him to do this.

I can not say this is definitely the way it was done but if not I dont think it is a million miles away.

Just hope that some one stayed with me through this and could understand it all.

billy
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post #29 of 31 Old 05-08-2011, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Gosh, you've really put in a lot of time and I it appears you have the answer. Honestly, I can't immediately give this the thought it deserves. When I get free I'll come back and comment on your work.

I'm busy trying to decide on what kind of european mortise and tenoner to choose. I need rapid change over between about five different stock thicknesses (for 1 1/4" storm windows, 1 3/8 residential sash, 1 3/4" light commercial sash, 2 1/4" heavy commercial sash and a 1 5/8" custom application). Then in each thickness I need approximately a 1.5" and a 2.5" long tenon. I'd also like a decent production speed. I'm budgeting up to 15K for a used system. I'm planning to haunch off the profile after shaping the sash parts then miter them for a good fit. Any ideas?

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post #30 of 31 Old 05-24-2011, 03:53 AM
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I don't know about the old day's, but if you want to recreate this molding then something like the CarveWrite. It will produce detailed molding like this & not break the bank.

http://www.carvewright.com/2010CWweb/cwproducts.htm

James
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post #31 of 31 Old 05-31-2011, 01:38 AM
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Nice one
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