help with one corner on crown molding - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 Old 04-25-2013, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1
View mich5blue's Photo Album My Photos
help with one corner on crown molding

I am newer to crown molding installation, and looking for advice.

I have successfully installed crown in 3 of the 4 corners in my dining room. All the walls/ceilings were relatively flat making it pretty easy, but this last corner is giving me fits.

Basically, about 8-10" from the corner, the ceiling rises up on the left side about 1/4-3/4" where it meets the other ceiling. This is making it difficult because I either have to choose to have the inside corner be a good fit/level and sacrifice the crown bowing/dipping on the left further down the wall, or have the crown on the wall be level and then the corner would not look great.

Here is a picture to better explain what I am talking about:
http://imgur.com/CkJ03a0 (This picture shows the ceiling line, not the wall line)

Here is an example (don't mind the hole in the ceiling) of where I put the crown level with the ceiling for the majority of the wall, and where the ceiling jumps up to meet the other in the corner, it leaves this large gap:
http://imgur.com/ydgzv1R
and here is an example when I have the crown be level with the ceiling at the inside corner, it puts the left side with a big gap
http://imgur.com/1JUMX7r

What is my best option here? Do I shave the drywall a bit where the dip goes up, to make it a more gradual lift?

Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated! I am very close to finishing and it looks great so far, I don't want this one troublesome corner to ruin it.

Thanks!

Last edited by mich5blue; 04-26-2013 at 01:17 AM.
mich5blue is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 04-26-2013, 07:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Coast
Posts: 335
View Sawdustguy's Photo Album My Photos
Why does the ceiling rise like that, I think that is the real question. How does the ceiling on the opposite side of the room meet the wall? Seems to me like there is something a miss here.

There are ways to deal with a cathedral ceiling or a vaulted ceiling but in that case it would be on both sides of the room.

Makes me think that the ceiling joists are different widths or the wall studs were cut at the wrong length. Is there a second floor, if so how is the level of the floor?

More pictures or info would be helpful.

George

Last edited by Sawdustguy; 04-26-2013 at 07:27 AM.
Sawdustguy is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 04-26-2013, 01:40 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5
View jones_m_s's Photo Album My Photos
Is it just that corner rising up like that? or the entire side of that ceiling? If it is just that corner, I have a suggestion. You're probably not going to like it though. Cut the dry wall out 6" past the change in plane; install some shims; rehang dry wall.
jones_m_s is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 15 Old 04-26-2013, 02:22 PM
No Longer Here
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,839
View rrbrown's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by jones_m_s View Post
Is it just that corner rising up like that? or the entire side of that ceiling? If it is just that corner, I have a suggestion. You're probably not going to like it though. Cut the dry wall out 6" past the change in plane; install some shims; rehang dry wall.
I agree with that. Anything else will be visible.
rrbrown is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 04-26-2013, 02:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 12,470
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
I do not know how much run you are talking about. The first thing that comes to my mind is some very careful caulking.

George
GeorgeC is online now  
post #6 of 15 Old 04-26-2013, 02:32 PM
No Longer Here
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,839
View rrbrown's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
I do not know how much run you are talking about. The first thing that comes to my mind is some very careful caulking.

George

I thought about that with maybe splitting the difference on the ceiling and the corner. However I think that will still be noticeable.
rrbrown is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 04-26-2013, 03:30 PM
Tool Fanactic
 
WarnerConstInc.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Auburn, In
Posts: 1,899
View WarnerConstInc.'s Photo Album My Photos
Just float it out with a few layers of hot mud.
WarnerConstInc. is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 04-28-2013, 04:24 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Anchorage AK
Posts: 8
View vaultf600's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. View Post
Just float it out with a few layers of hot mud.

I agree float it, texture and repaint....or...maybe scribe the piece if it isn't a noticeable profile.
vaultf600 is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 05-07-2013, 10:12 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
A 'real' trim carpenter will pull out his pencil, hold the crown where it is parallel to the lines you popped where the BOTTOM of the crown is 'supposed to be' and just touching the ceiling and THEN scribe the top of the crown so you can pull out the hand plane in your tool pouch pocket and SCRIBE the top of the crown to 'fit' the imperfection in the ceiling...

A 'good' trim guy (finish carpenter) does not make 'extra work' for painters or sheetrock men... He leaves the job fitting tightly and it should not 'need' a lot of caulk or mudwork...

Seriously...



First thing you should have done was cut a few pieces of scrap about 16 inches long or so (one with a left side 45 deg angle and one with a right side 45 degree angle). You go around the room with these pieces and bed them into the ceiling at each corner until they look right and mark the bottom... (I DID see in your picture where you popped lines - These are only good if you actually 'fit' scrap pieces in the corner. Does not work so well if you just use a tape and measure down in the corners...)

Then you pop some lines on those marks and run ALL crown so that the bottom fits those lines...

When you run into a wooptie-woo in the ceiling - You scribe the piece of crown and trim the top to allow for the imperfection. A good trim guy will not have to get down from the walkboard or ladder when doing this sort of work... He WILL have the hand plane in one of his tool pouch pockets...

You can also cut a piece of scrap just barely big enough to fit in BEHIND the crown (with a little room for clearance) and about 3 or 4 feet long and nail the wizz out of that into the corner before you start with the crown. That piece will give you something extra for the nails to bite into if you decide to only plane 'some' of the inperfection out and let the crown 'roll' a slight bit to take up the rest... You want the corner to be 'strong' if there is a lot of pressure on the joint trying to 'twist' it - lest it will try to come loose and move later on down the road... A 'good' trim carpenter will NOT make his piece of trim look like it was shot with a scattergun. He will make sure the number of 'visible' nail holes in the piece of trim is kept to a minimum and make SURE that each nail that he does shoot is biting into something solid...


When I run crown - It is inside multi million dollar homes. Caulk and mud for that sort of crap is NOT allowed... (builders WILL have you tear that crap out and do it again without hesitation) You have only a few choices left to 'deal with it'. You can either rip ALL the messed up junk (ceiling and joists) out and have some framers and sheetrock men come 're-do' it 'correctly (I got NO issues ripping crap work out and having others do 're-do' it correctly BTW)... OR you can pull out the hand plane and fit the ceiling the best you can.

A 'good' trim carpenter will run it 'correctly' no matter how much your home cost. The quality of the work is what matters most to them. Caulk and sheetrock mud is NOT 'allowed'...





FWIW - NONE of the hispanic guys on our 'trim crew' even own a friggin hand plane... They are NOT what I call 'real' trim carpenters and I get paid well to 'fix' crap they do sometimes...

Another FWIW - You CAN squeek by in a pinch doing this sort of thing WITHOUT a hand plane IF you are not shy about using you chopsaw in a way that is 'not so safe'... (we got a 'disclaimer' on most pages here that suggest you may get 'dangerous advice at times... This is some of that... Read at your own risk...) After you have drawn your scribe line you can bed the crown into your saw like it would lay on the ceiling (with the top UP) and then slide the piece of crown back and forth under the blade while slowly 'trimming' down to the line. This requires getting down from the ladder and is unsafe as hell. Better AND cheaper to just spend the money on a hand plane in MY opinion if you are running a lot of crown.




Got to finish fixing my dinner now... Plan to take some 'real-deal' 'home-cooked' enchaladas to work tomorrow to share with my 'non-trim carpentry' hispanic amigos!

Those guys friggin LOVE me!
OnealWoodworking is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 05-08-2013, 06:37 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5
View jones_m_s's Photo Album My Photos
Yes. You can definately do it right like that and when you plane it three times and it is still below the ceiling by 3/4 inch, plane it some more.
jones_m_s is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 05-08-2013, 08:43 PM
Tool Fanactic
 
WarnerConstInc.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Auburn, In
Posts: 1,899
View WarnerConstInc.'s Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking View Post
A 'real' trim carpenter will pull out his pencil, hold the crown where it is parallel to the lines you popped where the BOTTOM of the crown is 'supposed to be' and just touching the ceiling and THEN scribe the top of the crown so you can pull out the hand plane in your tool pouch pocket and SCRIBE the top of the crown to 'fit' the imperfection in the ceiling...

A 'good' trim guy (finish carpenter) does not make 'extra work' for painters or sheetrock men... He leaves the job fitting tightly and it should not 'need' a lot of caulk or mudwork...

Seriously...



First thing you should have done was cut a few pieces of scrap about 16 inches long or so (one with a left side 45 deg angle and one with a right side 45 degree angle). You go around the room with these pieces and bed them into the ceiling at each corner until they look right and mark the bottom... (I DID see in your picture where you popped lines - These are only good if you actually 'fit' scrap pieces in the corner. Does not work so well if you just use a tape and measure down in the corners...)

Then you pop some lines on those marks and run ALL crown so that the bottom fits those lines...

When you run into a wooptie-woo in the ceiling - You scribe the piece of crown and trim the top to allow for the imperfection. A good trim guy will not have to get down from the walkboard or ladder when doing this sort of work... He WILL have the hand plane in one of his tool pouch pockets...

You can also cut a piece of scrap just barely big enough to fit in BEHIND the crown (with a little room for clearance) and about 3 or 4 feet long and nail the wizz out of that into the corner before you start with the crown. That piece will give you something extra for the nails to bite into if you decide to only plane 'some' of the inperfection out and let the crown 'roll' a slight bit to take up the rest... You want the corner to be 'strong' if there is a lot of pressure on the joint trying to 'twist' it - lest it will try to come loose and move later on down the road... A 'good' trim carpenter will NOT make his piece of trim look like it was shot with a scattergun. He will make sure the number of 'visible' nail holes in the piece of trim is kept to a minimum and make SURE that each nail that he does shoot is biting into something solid...


When I run crown - It is inside multi million dollar homes. Caulk and mud for that sort of crap is NOT allowed... (builders WILL have you tear that crap out and do it again without hesitation) You have only a few choices left to 'deal with it'. You can either rip ALL the messed up junk (ceiling and joists) out and have some framers and sheetrock men come 're-do' it 'correctly (I got NO issues ripping crap work out and having others do 're-do' it correctly BTW)... OR you can pull out the hand plane and fit the ceiling the best you can.

A 'good' trim carpenter will run it 'correctly' no matter how much your home cost. The quality of the work is what matters most to them. Caulk and sheetrock mud is NOT 'allowed'...





FWIW - NONE of the hispanic guys on our 'trim crew' even own a friggin hand plane... They are NOT what I call 'real' trim carpenters and I get paid well to 'fix' crap they do sometimes...

Another FWIW - You CAN squeek by in a pinch doing this sort of thing WITHOUT a hand plane IF you are not shy about using you chopsaw in a way that is 'not so safe'... (we got a 'disclaimer' on most pages here that suggest you may get 'dangerous advice at times... This is some of that... Read at your own risk...) After you have drawn your scribe line you can bed the crown into your saw like it would lay on the ceiling (with the top UP) and then slide the piece of crown back and forth under the blade while slowly 'trimming' down to the line. This requires getting down from the ladder and is unsafe as hell. Better AND cheaper to just spend the money on a hand plane in MY opinion if you are running a lot of crown.




Got to finish fixing my dinner now... Plan to take some 'real-deal' 'home-cooked' enchaladas to work tomorrow to share with my 'non-trim carpentry' hispanic amigos!

Those guys friggin LOVE me!
You should pay more attention Mr. I put up crown in billion dollar houses.

The ceiling is screwed up, it has a big hallowed out spot in the corner. The way to fix it right is not to shave off the crown or scribe it to the 3/4" difference. The way to do it right it is to get the ceiling back in the right plane.

You can hack it together or fix the real problem so everything lines up nice.
WarnerConstInc. is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 05-08-2013, 09:03 PM
Senior Member
 
OnealWoodworking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,128
View OnealWoodworking's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by jones_m_s View Post
Yes. You can definately do it right like that and when you plane it three times and it is still below the ceiling by 3/4 inch, plane it some more.
I am curious how the guy went about popping his lines...

The corner 'would' fit correctly if he had cut some scrap pieces about 16 or so inches long (with miters) and then fit those pieces in all the corners before marking his lines underneath those scraps and popping the lines in between all the corners...

If he had done that - All the corners would fit correctly and he would simply be dealing with a hump (right before the corner it seems from looking at his picture...) that could be dealt with by simply planing the crown some...

The hump in his picture is not that bad in my opinion.
OnealWoodworking is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 06-10-2013, 11:42 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Nj
Posts: 55
View Chapstick's Photo Album My Photos
I'll just throw this out there, why not cope the funky corner like normal, stick it up there, fasten it very well, and then bend the crown to follow the ceiling. Might be able to at least minimize the caulk and keep the joint in the corner tight. Without ripping the ceiling out and shimming the joists to make it flat i don't see a way to achieve perfection. I think at this point it's a matter of picking the option that wont stand out the most. At least it's paint grade crown !

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose.
Chapstick is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 06-11-2013, 10:32 AM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. View Post
You should pay more attention Mr. I put up crown in billion dollar houses.
Billion dollar homes? That I've gotta see. I tried to look it up, and the most expensive home in the U.S. I found was a scant $190 million. http://realestate.msn.com/the-most-e...sale-in-the-us






.
cabinetman is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 06-11-2013, 11:57 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Pa
Posts: 2,992
View TimPa's Photo Album My Photos
dang, in my po town, i don't even work on million dollar homes.

that 6 zero's right?

the real question is: what is the adjacent wall/ceiling joint line doing, rising or staying straight? But i agree with a 3/4" difference in height, the ceiling should be repaired to look right with crown. If I had that problem, i may never had attempted crown without trying to repair first.

Last edited by TimPa; 06-11-2013 at 12:01 PM.
TimPa is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crown molding help warrior48188 General Woodworking Discussion 4 03-31-2012 06:16 PM
Crown Molding Bob Guercio General Woodworking Discussion 20 03-10-2011 10:07 PM
Crown molding chubby190 Design & Plans 7 03-23-2010 06:57 AM
Crown Molding Jig? rtnewbie General Woodworking Discussion 13 02-23-2010 03:45 PM
Crown Molding 43longtime Trim Carpentry & Built-Ins 17 10-02-2009 01:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome