Is this countertop cut wrong? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 Old 05-11-2013, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 575
View ponch37300's Photo Album My Photos
Is this countertop cut wrong?

One more countertop question, or just a confirmation of a problem!

The countertop is a reverse 45 miter cut on an "L" shape. I went to put it in today and it looks like the miter cut is off a hair and one cut is longer then the other. When I noticed this we went to the store(menards) with pictures on my camera and spoke to the cabinet manager who told me once I put on the clamps to pull the two sides together that it would be fine. I questioned this because it wasn't a matter of pulling things together, it's a matter of one side being longer then the other. He again assured me that it would be fine and if necessary I could bend the backsplash. This is where I really started to question his knowledge. I told him I would try it but didn't think the clamps would do what needed to be done. Clamps are on and still doesn't line up right. Just want to make sure that it is a problem with the countertop and when I take it back into him that I'm not in the wrong.








Thanks for your help
ponch37300 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 05-11-2013, 09:38 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,302
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
there's a few things I would check first

Measure the width of both separate pieces from underneath. They should be identical, and if one is wider that's your problem.
I suspect the angles are OK, but you may be able to see if they need to be relieved below the laminate to fit up tighter or if there is a bump on one wall that prevents it from moving closer.
The corner is "probably" not a true 90 degree. Take a framing square and see if it sits flush and fits tight inside the "L".

I suspect the pieces were made from two different lengths of post form and they are not the same width. Take the measurements with you if you go back and see what the other post form widths measure underneath to find one that will mate with at least one of yours.

It could also be that one of the backsplash boards is not at 90 degrees to the counter surface.

In order for the piece to be offset by that much, the angle would have to be off considerably and then they wouldn't mate as close as they do.....JMO.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 05-12-2013 at 08:20 AM.
woodnthings is online now  
post #3 of 20 Old 05-11-2013, 10:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,932
View Hammer1's Photo Album My Photos
delete

Last edited by Hammer1; 05-11-2013 at 10:43 PM.
Hammer1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 07:59 AM
The New Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Down south, where the food is good.
Posts: 1,200
View Itchytoe's Photo Album My Photos
It's not going to fit like a glove, so to speak. Your walls are not perfectly flat, and that corner isn't exactly 90 degrees. It's going to take some caulk to get it looking good. Does the countertop line up with itself, or is one of the pieces wider than the other, or is one of the 45 degree cuts longer than the other? If so, that's your problem. If not, the counter is fine and you'll just have to caulk it because your walls aren't quite perfect, like every other house in the world.
Itchytoe is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 08:32 AM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
I've installed quite a few of those type tops and it's possible that the angles aren't right, but usually they are cut very good. If they are cut wrong, it would affect how the back edge fits the wall. It's difficult to measure the lengths of the cuts as there are no exact points of reference. One or both edges can be cut to account for the wall being out, but that is difficult to do on site, especially if you're inexperienced.

It doesn't matter if the tops are exactly level to each other to see if the mating edges fit. It is possible to use a heat gun on the inside curve where the back splash meets the counter top, and slowly heat it while pushing back the longest top into place, and then screwing it down. It doesn't take much.






.
cabinetman is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 575
View ponch37300's Photo Album My Photos
Thanks for all the replies.

Right now I'm not worried about how it fits the wall, that part I can work out. The problem right now is the front of the countertop and the backsplash have to both line up, which mine don't. When I line up the front corner points the backslash of one starts before the other side so they don't line up. Kind of like when you make a picture frame and one of the angles are off by a little it makes one side longer then the other. As long as the cuts were made straight the countertops will fit together no matter the angle, just one side will be longer then the other if the angles are off. If you look at the 2nd and 3rd pictures you can see how the backsplashes don't meet up at all and if I was to move one side back to where they meet up the front corner would be way off. As far as I know there is no fitting I can do to the countertops to make them line up, they just need a straight cut at a perfect 45 angle. Unless I'm missing something? This is just the countertops and nothing to do with the wall right now. Once I get the countertops to mate up right then I can fit it to the wall, but how it is now the wall makes no difference, the countertops just don't match up.

Thanks for your help
ponch37300 is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 10:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
It looks to me like the counter is high at the joint creating much of the problem. Check it with a level and perhaps shem the counter on each end. It's possible they may have cut the counter wrong however it is intended to be installed perfectly level to fit correctly. You might install the pull up bolts but not overtighten in case you end up having to take the counter back to the store.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 10:53 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,302
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
check the backsplash for 90 degrees

photo 2 shows a 90 degree vertical on the close piece and a less than 90 on the furthest piece..... unless my highly trained eyes are deceiving me. I suspect the laminate has pulled the particle board toward the counter surface by a degree or so and that's why the difference at the top. Until I resolved that, I wouldn't start looking for an angle deviation. The bottom radius/cove looks like it would line up OK.


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to woodnthings For This Useful Post:
mics_54 (05-12-2013)
post #9 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 575
View ponch37300's Photo Album My Photos
I took the countertop apart and measured from the front edge point to the start of the back splash and there is almost 1/8" difference. One is 34" and one is 34 1/8".

Name:  IMG_20130512_095114_338.jpg
Views: 4194
Size:  35.4 KB

Name:  IMG_20130512_095158_044.jpg
Views: 4150
Size:  39.9 KB

Thanks for your help
ponch37300 is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 10:58 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,302
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
so, the backsplash is too tall ....

On one side it's 1/8" taller, right? And I'll bet it's not at 90 degrees either...

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is online now  
post #11 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 575
View ponch37300's Photo Album My Photos
Yes from the front edge to the start of the bottom of the backsplash is 1/8" off from each other. I don't see anyway how I can fix this.

Thanks for your help
ponch37300 is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 575
View ponch37300's Photo Album My Photos
Here it is all level and lined up. It still doesn't line up, all I can say is that one side of the miter is longer then the other. If the short side was about 1/8" longer it would line up perfect.

Name:  IMG_20130512_102124_102.jpg
Views: 4193
Size:  41.2 KB

Name:  IMG_20130512_102145_483.jpg
Views: 4230
Size:  45.5 KB

Thanks for your help
ponch37300 is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 12:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 970
View mics_54's Photo Album My Photos
take it back

you aren't going to be able to make it work

preformed p-lam tops are always a pain
mics_54 is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 12:19 PM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponch37300 View Post
Here it is all level and lined up. It still doesn't line up, all I can say is that one side of the miter is longer then the other. If the short side was about 1/8" longer it would line up perfect.
Measuring that way may lead to some variance in length. Because of it being pieced, the BS may or may not be at 90. Checking for level and the fit would be best done on the floor, as on the cabinets, the pieces can be shimmed to check the miter. There are a few planes to check for a fit. You have the front vertical edge, the front to back seam, the inside curve of the BS, the vertical seam on the BS, and the top edge of the BS. Shimming for level doesn't match all those up.

While on the floor, and flat, check the joint with a framing square to see if you have a 90 degree corner. That's the starting point. If one or both of the angle cuts have to be changed, you may wind up with equal lengths. That's not easy if you haven't done that before. If it is 90, the two pieces are likely different depths, and if the front edges lines up the inside curve will not. The angle of the splash can be changed to line up if that's the only problem.

Then whether all that will fit the wall without caulking, is the rest of the installation.





.
cabinetman is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 575
View ponch37300's Photo Album My Photos
I don't believe it's the angle of the splash that is the problem, from what I can tell it's where the splash starts that is the problem. One side the splash starts to soon, so the whole splash is about 1/8" forward of the other side causing them not to line up.

I put an angle finder on the counter and the angle seems to be 89.7, not sure if that .3 degrees will cause that 1/8" difference or not but something is.

I took a bunch of picture at different angles to hopefully show what I mean better. I'm not a cabinet guy but I have installed laminate tops before with no problems. But from my limited knowledge all I can guess is this is miss cut and won't line up no matter what. The last two pictures from the top really show how the backsplash radius starts "early" on one side. Fitting to the wall I can handle and not worried about that right now, but this angle is driving me nuts and I just don't think there is anything I can do to get it to fit together right.
















Thanks for your help

Last edited by ponch37300; 05-12-2013 at 12:57 PM.
ponch37300 is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 05-12-2013, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 575
View ponch37300's Photo Album My Photos
Well I'm fairly confident that there was nothing I could do to fix this so we took them back and they are going to reorder them. Hopefully the new miter will match up and then I can install them. Thanks for all the advice.

Thanks for your help
ponch37300 is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:30 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 26
View Frosty's Photo Album My Photos
I know your likely done with this issue by now. I used to work in a counter shop and this was a common issue (not so often with outside corners). The problem you were having was because they are made out of two separate blanks unfortunately. We would always try our best to make them the same (if they fit within a 12' run) but the bender for the backsplash isn't exactly a highly accurate machine. So that's where the variance of 1/8" came in. Honestly I would never order a counter from a big box store because they are pumped out in such quantities that no one cares about quality. Your best bet is to go to a local shop if you can find one where they put a little more pride in their work and will dry fit it before making you pay for it. That's just my two cents. Hope you had better luck with your second set.
Frosty is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 10:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 970
View mics_54's Photo Album My Photos
measure before you take them home
mics_54 is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 10:14 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
I've learned that the stuff Menards manufactures, (doors, countertops, cabinets) are all junk. I bought the exact same counter tops for both my bathroom and kitchen. Neither were right when I got them. The bathroom one I got to work, the kitchen they had to redo and it still wasn't perfect.
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 10:19 PM
Senior Member
 
chopnhack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Somewhere sunny
Posts: 155
View chopnhack's Photo Album My Photos
So what was your final outcome? Did the new pieces come in correct and the countertop work out well?
chopnhack is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help on Countertop jzanick Wood Finishing 1 01-04-2013 09:31 AM
kitchen countertop Al78 Wood Finishing 4 04-25-2011 09:20 AM
Countertop ????? BikerRick General Woodworking Discussion 9 02-22-2010 08:18 AM
How to cut countertop TomC General Woodworking Discussion 7 09-16-2009 04:07 PM
wood countertop sausagefingers Joinery 1 03-07-2009 12:33 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome