Cabinet Adjustable Shelf Standards - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 07-28-2020, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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Cabinet Adjustable Shelf Standards

Hello all.

I'm working on designing some built-in bookshelves. I'm planning on using shelf standards for the adjustable shelves; I'm looking at Knape and Vogt 255 Series Steel Standards. I do plan to rout out a stopped dado to inset them flush with the surface of the cabinet.

I'm wondering if any of you have any experience using these. I had a guy tell me that they're jinky (shelf standards generally, not Knape and Vogt specifically) and they never line up right. He also said they're ugly.

I'm not terribly worried about ugly. I can choose color and they'll be mostly hidden by the books and the face frames.

Just wondering if any of you have experience using these and can share your thoughts.

Thanks.

By the way: since I know someone will mention shelf pins: I really want the 1/2" adjustability. I've never seen shelf pin holes that close together, but I don't know that it would cause any problems to do so. I've also seen the holes ream out - especially for heavy items like books and after a few readjustments - or the pins not fit properly, especially after painting. But I don't have a lot of experience either way. Appreciate input.
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post #2 of 27 Old 07-29-2020, 01:58 PM
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use to use that type bracket when i first started out, probably because my dad used them. they are very obvious and can be seen over the books. i've gone to mostly shelf angle brackets with 1/4" or 5mm hole for all my stuff. these get locked in with the shelf, i haven't had one wallow out the hole yet.



this drilling guide is a handy layout tool. hole spacing is 1.25" apart.

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post #3 of 27 Old 07-29-2020, 02:09 PM
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i'm in my office looking at all my bookshelves in here. slowly over the years they have fewer and fewer books on them and more nick nack stuff. i am a voracious reader, but most of my stuff is online now. i'm so use to reading on a tablet that i dread reading an actual book for all that manual page turning :) same with the daily paper, i still subscribe but read on my tablet. all the kids room (gone kids) have empty book shelves in the rooms.

i'm not questioning your need for built in bookshelves, but maybe your future need for many of them
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post #4 of 27 Old 07-29-2020, 02:12 PM
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They work fine. Just be sure the factory ends are top or bottom and they will line up.

If the color matches close enough, I don't they are any less visible than pin holes.
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post #5 of 27 Old 07-29-2020, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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Do you see any problem with putting the holes for the shelf pins a 1/2" spacing? I know I'd have to make my own template. Or maybe I can use of the 1.25" templates twice, staggered at 5/8"...

We have hundreds of books and neither of us like ebooks, so I don't anticipate our need for bookshelves to go away. Subsequent homeowners may struggle with filling up the shelves, but I'm not really concerned about that.

Steven
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post #6 of 27 Old 07-29-2020, 05:36 PM
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I personally prefer the pilasters. Shelf pins are fine too, but stay away from the plastic ones. Those are garbage.



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post #7 of 27 Old 07-29-2020, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scbunker View Post
Do you see any problem with putting the holes for the shelf pins a 1/2" spacing? I know I'd have to make my own template. Or maybe I can use of the 1.25" templates twice, staggered at 5/8"...



We have hundreds of books and neither of us like ebooks, so I don't anticipate our need for bookshelves to go away. Subsequent homeowners may struggle with filling up the shelves, but I'm not really concerned about that.
If you need that much adjustability, just use the pilasters. That many holes may weaken the structure, pending materials used and thickness.

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post #8 of 27 Old 07-29-2020, 05:42 PM
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I'm partial to standards. What we used in the early 80's. They just got cheaper with the pegs over the years...
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post #9 of 27 Old 07-30-2020, 08:10 PM
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The clips for the metal pilasters compress over time with heavy loads and can fall out. I much prefer 5mm drilled holes.


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post #10 of 27 Old 07-30-2020, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morogany View Post
The clips for the metal pilasters compress over time with heavy loads and can fall out. I much prefer 5mm drilled holes.


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I've never hear that unless it was overloaded in the woodshop...
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post #11 of 27 Old 07-31-2020, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelwork View Post
I've never hear that unless it was overloaded in the woodshop...
Same here.

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post #12 of 27 Old 07-31-2020, 08:02 AM
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I'm making a tall bookshelf now for my daughter. Like most of my cabinet type projects I opt for 5mm pins. Ultimately it is cheaper. Just a scrap for a jig and some pins and your good to go. I find a stop collar for my drill bit to be handy, but in the past just marked the drill bit with a piece of tape at the correct depth. The standards are fine, but I think the pins are bit less unsightly and simpler and less expensive. I actually saved dozens of the standards from a demo a while back and have yet to use any of them. I just prefer shelf pins.

A handful of patience is worth a bushel of brains...
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post #13 of 27 Old 07-31-2020, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morogany View Post
The clips for the metal pilasters compress over time with heavy loads and can fall out. I much prefer 5mm drilled holes.


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I used these on a floor to ceiling bookshelf I built 42 years ago. Have had zero problems. This bookshelf has heavy loads on some shelves.



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post #14 of 27 Old 07-31-2020, 10:26 AM
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I vote for 1/4 inch or 5 mm holes and the pin brackets that @_Ogre recommended. They offer strong support and the shelf itself prevents the pin from coming out. They are simple, cheap, unobtrusive and effective.

Choose whatever hole spacing you want and make a drill guide to match. The "standard" spacing these days is 32 mm.

I grew up with shelf standards on the walls of my bedroom and also in the bookcases. My parents loved them. I disliked them a lot. I would bump the bottom of a weak clip upwards while putting away a book on a shelf underneath, and the shelf above would tilt and dump its books on me. Yuck.
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post #15 of 27 Old 07-31-2020, 10:41 AM
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How many times has anyone ever adjusted a shelf after it was installed?

All those shelf pin holes.........LOL

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post #16 of 27 Old 07-31-2020, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert View Post
How many times has anyone ever adjusted a shelf after it was installed?

All those shelf pin holes.........LOL
Not too much on book shelves. Matter of fact, any book shelf Ive ever made was not adjustable. But those were all for myself or my wife. Before building them, I would take the largest books and the smallest books for reference, and built to suit.

But, pantry and kitchen cabinets, my wife changes those around at least once a year.

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post #17 of 27 Old 07-31-2020, 02:07 PM
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In the 80's we always installed in a dado and staples them in vs the nail.

I think most have went on the cheap with holes and penny clips...
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post #18 of 27 Old 07-31-2020, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert View Post
How many times has anyone ever adjusted a shelf after it was installed?

All those shelf pin holes.........LOL

I have. When something is built to last many years you never know just what you are going to put on those shelves. I have lived in this house 43 years and things have changed many times.


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post #19 of 27 Old 08-01-2020, 10:42 AM
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I have used the shelf standard many times. I have found that the common error in installing is not using a vix self centering drill bit when installing them. Using a vix type bit will put the pilot hole dead center when installing the standards preventing the standard from changing position as the screw seats into the standard. Position the standard so you can read the numbers (upright). I like using shelf standards... the allow for more adjustment than any other method. The only down side I have had , is the stupefied looks I get at the hardware when I ask more clips for shelf standards. Seems only the old timers know what they are.

Gary

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post #20 of 27 Old 08-01-2020, 10:54 AM
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Do the pins with the L bracket on them shown earlier come in more than one size?



If they came with a standard drop (1/4"?) and a longer L for a 3/4" drop you could drill holes at 1" spacing and vary the hardware to get 1/2" adjustability.
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