Built-In Kitchen Cabinet Stripping & Restoration ... Let Me Draw on Your Expertise - Page 5 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #81 of 93 Old 05-24-2018, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Can you see the ends of it. It appears to be a tongue and groove beaded joint. It might be a piece of solid wood with a simulated joint. This is part of the detail.
It's not T&G. There is no fancy joinery. The bead is the edge profile at the rear of the face frame; the face frame is just nailed to the cabinet ... and there's that gap ... you can see light coming through it.
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post #82 of 93 Old 05-24-2018, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
My comment is in reference to installing your new face frame; since the cabinet will be painted, I would glue the face frame to the sides and install with four 2Ē finish nails on each side. The nails will be set, spackled and painted, so they will not be seen.
Nail into the plywood edgewise? (I've never been a fan of nails, but whatever works).

I've got 16g 1-1/2" and 2-1/2" nails for my nail gun on hand.
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post #83 of 93 Old 05-24-2018, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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My comment is in reference to installing your new face frame; since the cabinet will be painted, I would glue the face frame to the sides and install with four 2” finish nails on each side. The nails will be set, spackled and painted, so they will not be seen.
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Do you have room to add a 1/4” panel of ply to the inside? If yes, this 1/4” panel would tie the two pieces together.
There's room but the surfaces aren't flush as the plywood is around 1/4" thinner than the solid wood case it's mating to. Also, I may need the joint top not be perfectly planar. This whole cabinet tis out of whack and the glue up will need to be such that everything 'sort of' fits together. It will need to be clamped to coerce it away from the 'square' fitting of pieces.

It needs clamping because this cabinet is a huge PITA ... everything is out of whack. It's like playing 3D chess. It would have four times easier to just have torn this out and built it all from scratch.

The right stile (that's to say the broom closet's stile) which the new right case side attaches to is not parallel to the face frame. The stile is rotated so presents itself at an angle out of plane. It's significantly out of parallel so that if I attached the right cabinet plywood extension side to it that case side will not be square to the face frame. But 'the buck stops here' ... I'm not renovating Monticello, so I'm leaving it as it is and it's where I draw the line. Because everything is cockeyed and out of square it means my glue up is going to be more complicated as I need to force pieces into place and have them stay there. Simply putting glue on and pressing pieces together than walking away will end badly.

The plywood cabinet side-to-stile is connection is biscuit joined but it's not going to fit flush against the stile ... it's rotated out a little so it's square to the face frame. Again, the buck stops here. [I'd considered cutting the case side edge at an angle to make up for the defect, but my biscuit jointer is a 25+ year old Porter Cable with the worst designed fence and difficult to adjust in the best of circumstances and it doesn't do angles so I'd need to also make a beveled fence for it .... etc. etc. ...then I'd have a case side badly out of square to the face frame and highly visible ... so this is the balance I've struck].

Anyway, I need to assemble this carefully, clamp it securely, and apply the right pressure in the right places.

Last edited by Lovegasoline; 05-24-2018 at 03:09 PM.
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post #84 of 93 Old 05-24-2018, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
You would be surprised how well a glue joint holds that is just put together without clamping. Then the biscuits make it all the better. As long as the parts fit well you won't have anything to worry about.
Nothing fits well on this cabinet!
Absolutely nothing.

The crux is going to be getting the assembly and clamping completed.
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post #85 of 93 Old 05-24-2018, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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If your face frame is square it won’t matter if it overhangs one or both of the sides a little. It will not be noticeable from the front.
But it will from the side. The entrance door to the kitchen is just to the right of the cabinet ... one foot away and almost in-line with the face frame.

Also, the more I look at this cabinet, the more I dislike it. That right stile being so narrow just looks completely stupid.
I'm considering adding a strip 1/2"+ or so to the right stile to make it wider. It would extend beyond the case side. Adding width to the stile is problematic as there's not a lot of room to play with as the broom closet door needs clearance to swing closed without hitting the case side or counter top and I also need to maintain a 1" overhang on the right side of the counter top for balance. The cabinet just looks weird with that skinny stile. It will look even weirder when the drawer face overlays the stile a little making it look even narrower.

Last edited by Lovegasoline; 05-24-2018 at 03:24 PM.
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post #86 of 93 Old 05-24-2018, 05:48 PM
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Nothing fits well on this cabinet!
Absolutely nothing.

The crux is going to be getting the assembly and clamping completed.
You may not be able to cut a part off at 90 degrees and have it fit on these cabinets but you could cut the necessary angles to make it fit.
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post #87 of 93 Old 05-24-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Lovegasoline View Post
There's room but the surfaces aren't flush as the plywood is around 1/4" thinner than the solid wood case it's mating to. Also, I may need the joint top not be perfectly planar. This whole cabinet tis out of whack and the glue up will need to be such that everything 'sort of' fits together. It will need to be clamped to coerce it away from the 'square' fitting of pieces.

It needs clamping because this cabinet is a huge PITA ... everything is out of whack. It's like playing 3D chess. It would have four times easier to just have torn this out and built it all from scratch.

The right stile (that's to say the broom closet's stile) which the new right case side attaches to is not parallel to the face frame. The stile is rotated so presents itself at an angle out of plane. It's significantly out of parallel so that if I attached the right cabinet plywood extension side to it that case side will not be square to the face frame. But 'the buck stops here' ... I'm not renovating Monticello, so I'm leaving it as it is and it's where I draw the line. Because everything is cockeyed and out of square it means my glue up is going to be more complicated as I need to force pieces into place and have them stay there. Simply putting glue on and pressing pieces together than walking away will end badly.

The plywood cabinet side-to-stile is connection is biscuit joined but it's not going to fit flush against the stile ... it's rotated out a little so it's square to the face frame. Again, the buck stops here. [I'd considered cutting the case side edge at an angle to make up for the defect, but my biscuit jointer is a 25+ year old Porter Cable with the worst designed fence and difficult to adjust in the best of circumstances and it doesn't do angles so I'd need to also make a beveled fence for it .... etc. etc. ...then I'd have a case side badly out of square to the face frame and highly visible ... so this is the balance I've struck].

Anyway, I need to assemble this carefully, clamp it securely, and apply the right pressure in the right places.
Okay, letís clamp it. Take a board and screw it to the inside wall of your cabinet. This is temporary. It must be screwed tightly because this will be what you clamp to to pull the face frame. Once the frame is installed and your glue has dried for a few hours, the clamp or clamps are removed and the inside clamping board is removed.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #88 of 93 Old 05-24-2018, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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OK, I'll figure a clamping scheme out.

I need to move this project along and get some primer on, I'm running out of time for this stage.

Regarding the cabinet face frame gap, how to address that?
It seems to me that this face frame can move a little, at least along this edge, there was a bigger gap here previous. All the opening and closing of the doors is going to transfer onto the face frame (these doors are sort of heavy). So I sense that that gap may get some movement ... should I shoot more nails into it? Ideally, I'd take the face frame off, clean the mating surfaces and remount. I' will not do that as it's an integral part of the cabinet's construction. But I need to fill that gap. It's tricky because there's the beading detail to maintain.
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post #89 of 93 Old 06-06-2018, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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Mounting Butcher Block Counter Top
I have an approx. 34" x 21"x 1" butcher block counter top (ubiquitous IKEA item that came my way) that I'm going to use for the base cabinet. Do I have to factor in any wood movement for the counter top mounting? I have a long cleat at the top of each cabinet case side cabinet side that I plan to use to mount the top, and I'll also add a cleat to the wall for the back edge. The front will be supported by the face frame.

Any suggestions in mounting & support for the top?
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post #90 of 93 Old 06-06-2018, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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^
I've not secured a butcher block surface before, is it necessary to attach it so as to allow for movement from expansion/contraction?
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post #91 of 93 Old 06-10-2018, 11:30 AM
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I used a heat gun to soften and remove paint, works pretty good.

For gaps at the wall, like one said just use a small piece of trim. Only other way is cut a small strip of wood and push into the gap, secure by screwing through the inside of face frame, then caulk any small remaining gaps. Any type of filler will not last.

"You must become one with the wood grass hopper"
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post #92 of 93 Old 06-13-2018, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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I used a heat gun to soften and remove paint, works pretty good.

For gaps at the wall, like one said just use a small piece of trim. Only other way is cut a small strip of wood and push into the gap, secure by screwing through the inside of face frame, then caulk any small remaining gaps. Any type of filler will not last.
Unfortunately, the guys that skim coated the walls ended up filling the gaps with joint. I may smooth a bead of latex caulk over it in hopes of concealing and containing any cracking.

The base coats are oil paint (probably 30-40 years of oil before the latex era) and although I can't be sure, I think a heat gun wouldn't make much headway.
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post #93 of 93 Old 07-03-2018, 11:56 PM
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Unless you want to make the bead go away you better mask it off before putting bondo on it. Probably when it was made the joint was tight and wood movement made the side shrink in width creating a gap. Bondo is an excellent filler to use for that application. If you used spackle it would take forever to dry and if the side shrank again the spackle would fall out. Bondo will stay there.
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