accounting for kerf in cutting sheets - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5
View hwkremer's Photo Album My Photos
accounting for kerf in cutting sheets

Hello, I'm new to the forum and relatively new to woodworking. I am going to start on a kitchen cabinet job in my home in the fall, starting with a single wall and working my way around.

My question is about accounting for kerf in cutting the cases from 4x8 sheets of birch. When I lay out a cut list on on the sheet I can fit three 24"x36" pieces (sides and back) and one 24"x24" piece (bottom) on one sheet, more than enough for a single 24x36 base cabinet.

However, with a 1/8" kerf, all of these pieces are going to be slightly less than 24x36. If I leave room for the kerf on the diagram, I can't even get a single cabinet on a sheet. (see attached)

Should I just assume that the cabinets will be slightly less than 24x36?

Thanks,
Hugh
Attached Images
  
hwkremer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 11:25 AM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
WELCOME TO THE FORUM

I do allow for the kerf. I make loose toe kicks, so my ends are 31⅞" x 23⅞". I can get six of those out of one sheet. When doing layouts, upper cabinet stock is cut at 11⅞", and widths of cabinets don't usually exceed 32".

When I do layouts, I figure the entire project on layout sheets like you did. I lay out the largest sizes first, and try to account for all the space on each sheet. That's why it's important to do all the parts on layout sheets, not just the cabinet you are working on.

As a note, I mark each piece on the layout sheet for what it is and where it goes. That way the parts don't get mixed up.





.
.
cabinetman is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5
View hwkremer's Photo Album My Photos
Thanks!

Cabinetman, thanks for the good advice
hwkremer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 11:38 AM
Ole Woodworker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 4,535
View BigJim's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwkremer View Post
Hello, I'm new to the forum and relatively new to woodworking. I am going to start on a kitchen cabinet job in my home in the fall, starting with a single wall and working my way around.

My question is about accounting for kerf in cutting the cases from 4x8 sheets of birch. When I lay out a cut list on on the sheet I can fit three 24"x36" pieces (sides and back) and one 24"x24" piece (bottom) on one sheet, more than enough for a single 24x36 base cabinet.


However, with a 1/8" kerf, all of these pieces are going to be slightly less than 24x36. If I leave room for the kerf on the diagram, I can't even get a single cabinet on a sheet. (see attached)

Should I just assume that the cabinets will be slightly less than 24x36?

Thanks,
Hugh
A base cabinet side isn't 24 inches wide as there is a face frame and 1/4 inch back. Even if it is euro style the side will be 1/4 inch less allowing for the back.

The only time I can think of when the base cabinet side would be exactly 24 inches wide would be if there is no face frames and the back is let in. If you bust the sheet of plywood right down the center, you will have two sheets 23 15/16 as the the curf is around 1/8 inch.

If anyone can see that 1/16 inch less on a cabinet side they need to be building cabinets. I don't know of anyone, even a vet cabinet man who could spot a 1/16 inch narrow cabinet side. I forgot, the euro cabinet will have an edge band so that will take up a little. I'm not trying to be a smart aleck just brain storming.

Just another thought, if you can use a separate toe kick you can get three cuts for three base cabinet sides out of one half sheet of plywood. The base cabinet side isn't 36 inches tall as you have to allow for the counter top and if you take the toe kick off the cabinet side you can get three cuts length wise for your sides. The only place I will cut a full length base cabinet side is if it is an end cabinet and there is no base molding to hide the side of the kick.

Just a couple more things and I will shut up, if you do leave the kick off be sure to recess cabinet bottom back up 3/4 inch so the bottom rail of the face frame will work out right.

So for a base cabinet with face frames and a back, not let in, and a 3/4 inch counter top and separate toe kick, (allowing 4 inches for a kick) the side would be 23 inches wide X 36 inches full height of cabinet minus 3/4 inch for top, minus 4 inches for separate kick will = 31 1/4 inches tall so measurement of base cabinet side will be 23 X 31 1/4.

Another note, on the separate toe kick, where the sides of the cabinet sits on the kick, the kick will be 4 inches tall but where the kick touches the bottom of the base cabinet it will be 4 3/4 inches. (remember, you had to recess the cabinet bottom back up 3/4 inch so the face frame would work out right.)

http://www.diychatroom.com/
The Other
BigJim

If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.

Last edited by BigJim; 09-14-2010 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Old Age again
BigJim is online now  
post #5 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5
View hwkremer's Photo Album My Photos
Good point

Yes, thank you - good point. They will indeed be Euro style, but as you said, there will be a 1/4" back. That more than makes up for the kerf down the middle.

And come to think of it, they won't even be 36" tall as there will be legs or base (I haven't decided which way to go on that yet).

So, I guess never mind on the question :-)
hwkremer is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 12:35 PM
Ole Woodworker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 4,535
View BigJim's Photo Album My Photos
Cabinetman posted while I was typing so scratch mine, he and I are on the same page though.

http://www.diychatroom.com/
The Other
BigJim

If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.
BigJim is online now  
post #7 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 01:16 PM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiju1943 View Post
Cabinetman posted while I was typing so scratch mine, he and I are on the same page though.

Just a comment on arriving at the 23⅞". I will check the width of the stock sheet first to see if it is 48" wide. If I have a good factory edge to split the sheet to two pieces of 23 15/16", then I'll do that. I'll run a block sander down the factory edge for a quick swipe just to get a feel for how good the edge is. With the good edge just cut, I'll turn it around and take off that outside edge (1/16") and wind up with 23⅞", and will have two good edges. All the pieces that get sized to 23⅞" get cut with the same fence setting.

What throws off the split, is if the sheet isn't 48", or if it's out of square. If you do plan on that center split with the same fence setting, check the sheets first to see if they are all the same.






.
.
cabinetman is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 01:54 PM
Ole Woodworker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 4,535
View BigJim's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
Just a comment on arriving at the 23⅞". I will check the width of the stock sheet first to see if it is 48" wide. If I have a good factory edge to split the sheet to two pieces of 23 15/16", then I'll do that. I'll run a block sander down the factory edge for a quick swipe just to get a feel for how good the edge is. With the good edge just cut, I'll turn it around and take off that outside edge (1/16") and wind up with 23⅞", and will have two good edges. All the pieces that get sized to 23⅞" get cut with the same fence setting.

What throws off the split, is if the sheet isn't 48", or if it's out of square. If you do plan on that center split with the same fence setting, check the sheets first to see if they are all the same.






.
.
I agree 100%, you are dead on.

http://www.diychatroom.com/
The Other
BigJim

If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.
BigJim is online now  
post #9 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 03:42 PM
No Longer Here
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,839
View rrbrown's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwkremer View Post
Yes, thank you - good point. They will indeed be Euro style, but as you said, there will be a 1/4" back. That more than makes up for the kerf down the middle.

And come to think of it, they won't even be 36" tall as there will be legs or base (I haven't decided which way to go on that yet).

So, I guess never mind on the question :-)
I agree with the exception that the 1/4" back always sits inside a rabbit cut on the side panel so the back does not show from the side.

I usually make my base cabinets 35" tall.
rrbrown is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 04:06 PM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post

I do allow for the kerf. I make loose toe kicks, so my ends are 31⅞" x 23⅞".

Actually, with a 4" toe kick, and an 1½" top, the ends will be 30½".






.
.
cabinetman is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 04:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Webster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 220
View Webster's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post

I do allow for the kerf. I make loose toe kicks,

.
.

What are 'loose toe kicks'?
I'm thinking......more or less ......a box attached to a seperate base?
If I'm on the right track , do you use a full lengh base (or as much as possible) and what would you do to finish off the exposed end cabinet?
Webster is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 05:23 PM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webster View Post
What are 'loose toe kicks'?
I'm thinking......more or less ......a box attached to a seperate base?
If I'm on the right track , do you use a full lengh base (or as much as possible) and what would you do to finish off the exposed end cabinet?

I make as long a base as a toe kick as possible. It's basically an outer shell with cross members, and gusset cleats at the corners and where the cross members intersect with the outer shell.

It's much easier to level one toe kick to level cabinets, than to level each cabinet individually. A loose toe kick also provides the ability to be shimmed underneath, or between it and the cabinet if necessary.

For finished ends, they could be recessed 3" like the front, or just a smidgen, like an ⅛" or ¼".







.
.
cabinetman is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 09-14-2010, 10:19 PM
Ole Woodworker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 4,535
View BigJim's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
Actually, with a 4" toe kick, and an 1½" top, the ends will be 30½".






.
.
I see the difference between your sides and the way I build mine. I usually built my own counter tops and used 3/4 inch plywood with 1 1/2 inch edging.

http://www.diychatroom.com/
The Other
BigJim

If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.
BigJim is online now  
post #14 of 19 Old 09-15-2010, 11:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Webster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 220
View Webster's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
I make as long a base as a toe kick as possible. It's basically an outer shell with cross members, and gusset cleats at the corners and where the cross members intersect with the outer shell.

It's much easier to level one toe kick to level cabinets, than to level each cabinet individually. A loose toe kick also provides the ability to be shimmed underneath, or between it and the cabinet if necessary.

For finished ends, they could be recessed 3" like the front, or just a smidgen, like an ⅛" or ¼".

.
I see.......thank you!

Now, would you use the same material on the front/sides of the base, as the face of the cabinets? and let a quarter round cover the shims....or do you cover the recessed, level base with the same wood (veneer/laminate) when all is finished?

I've been planning to do my kitchen cabinets also, but still working on a lot of ideas.
Webster is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 09-15-2010, 02:19 PM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webster View Post
Now, would you use the same material on the front/sides of the base, as the face of the cabinets? and let a quarter round cover the shims....or do you cover the recessed, level base with the same wood (veneer/laminate) when all is finished?

I've been planning to do my kitchen cabinets also, but still working on a lot of ideas.

If you have determined in your analysis of the flooring that there are great variations of out of level, and a base shoe would look appropriate, that would be the way to go. It would be a more of a traditional method for covering any gaps.

Some finished styles are of the contemporary look that a fitted toe kick fascia the same as the cabinet/doors, would look better than having an interrupted look with a base shoe. In that case the add on fascia should be made over sized so scribing could be done.






.
.
cabinetman is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to cabinetman For This Useful Post:
Webster (09-15-2010)
post #16 of 19 Old 09-18-2010, 02:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dover, DE
Posts: 352
View jraksdhs's Photo Album My Photos
over sized plywood

In reference to the saw kerf...my plywood comes 48 1/2" x 96 1/2". Problem solved!

jraks
jraksdhs is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 09-23-2010, 09:53 PM
Chief pencil holder
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 280
View scribbles's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by jraksdhs View Post
In reference to the saw kerf...my plywood comes 48 1/2" x 96 1/2". Problem solved!

jraks
so does mine
scribbles is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 09-26-2010, 08:19 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8
View claymation's Photo Album My Photos
Google SketchUp with the CutList plugin.
claymation is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 10-02-2010, 04:49 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
View huggie's Photo Album My Photos
I dimension my base cabinet sides 23 ¼” X 31 ¼” and dado top ¾”/bottom ¾”/back1/2”. For mounting I attach a board to the wall at 4” (find the high spot on the floor) and ensure the board is level – that mounts the back of the base cabinet at the right height and is level.

I install adjustable legs (I’m a LV junkie) on the front of the base cabinet and adjust them accordingly. With an uneven floor this is the fastest way to level the cabinets. The adjustable legs come with clips you attach to the kick plate and they work just fine.

After building/installing the countertop and the face frame the cabinets are 24” X 36”.
huggie is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
low kerf blades blaisearena General Woodworking Discussion 5 08-13-2010 09:28 AM
CMT 214.040.10 – 40T ATB General Purpose Thin Kerf Blade knotscott Classifieds 1 05-01-2010 07:21 PM
Is it the thin kerf blade, or is it me? Rustic Furniture Guy General Woodworking Discussion 4 12-24-2009 02:34 PM
Cross Cutting full 4x8 plywood sheets. Sleeper General Woodworking Discussion 26 05-27-2009 02:30 PM
4x8 sheets camelback123 Design & Plans 15 10-11-2007 01:20 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome