There may need to be more stringent regulations for house flippers - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 09-24-2015, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Angry There may need to be more stringent regulations for house flippers

I’m looking for a retirement home in Nevada and went to two separate homes flipped by the same guy. It was horrible and truthfully the guy should be in jail.

He painted both places with the crappiest paint and got it all over everything, but the worst was that he put new carpet over rotten floors. The floors tilted so much that you could not set a ball on the floor before it rolled out the door. The worst was in one house someone probably a realtor placed a piece of plywood over a section of the brand new carpet with a notice not to step on it because the floor was broken underneath.

I left without looking at the rest of the house because it smelled like something dead in there probably a body under the carpet. While I was walking away I noticed the wood siding was in the dirt and had warped so bad that it revealed openings under the house. They tried to paint the siding, but did not get between the cracks. I don’t know if they were running out of paint or maybe they didn’t clean it and the recent rains washed off the paint.

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post #2 of 20 Old 09-24-2015, 08:51 PM
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It sounds like they should have left the house as-is and sold it to someone who could make the necessary repairs. The smell: it might have been a crack house. I'm told it will ruin a house.
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post #3 of 20 Old 09-24-2015, 09:29 PM
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I would be all for stronger regulations against flippers, but ultimately that would come down to stronger regulations against contractors that perform at, or above acceptable levels in an already regulated industry.
The ones responsible for these shoddy flips are the agents that pay for the work done on the home. It's not a horrible industry (flipping), but it is full of good intentions, unrealistic expectations, and crappy budgets.
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post #4 of 20 Old 09-24-2015, 09:37 PM
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Ever since TV shows and info-mercials regarding house flipping became mainstream your everyday Joe now thinks they can flip a house. No surprise there.

Sleeper it sounds like you're savy to the game. I don't care about those who have money but know nothing about the housing market or how it's constructed. I have no sympathy for those looking to make a quick buck on something they know nothing about.


I don't think more regulation is the appropriate solution though. That just makes it harder for those who do have knowledge on how to properly physically invest in property make a profit. Folks who are smart and don't know anything about housing will hire someone who does that will at least give them a chance at weeding out the crap. Those who aren't that smart shouldn't receive special treatment at the masses expense.


JMHO...
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post #5 of 20 Old 09-24-2015, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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.... The smell: it might have been a crack house. I'm told it will ruin a house.
I had not thought about that, but now that you mention it, it does make sense hearing everyday that the drug problem has spread everywhere.

Hmm. maybe the flipper was a crackhead.

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post #6 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 12:00 AM
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I've recently watched a bunch of episodes of Holmes on Homes and Holmes Inspection - I never would have thought there were so many "professionals" out there who shouldn't be allowed to own a hammer.

I also watched some Flip or Flop - probably since he was on TV he didn't take stupid or dangerous shortcuts, but it was still funny to watch him struggle to turn a profit simply because he was ignorant.
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post #7 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 12:58 AM
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The SAD thing is (as some have mentioned) more regulations doesn't crack down on the bad ones (they didn't obey to start with!!!)...it ONLY effects the honest and good contractors as I whom are plowed through the ditches trying to either keep up with the law changes (due to others sloppy workmanship) or working harder to educate new clients on the costs difference of quality long lasting workmanship OR having to live with going cheap and using unlicensed and uninsured builders that produced shoddy work and the client lost all their money dealing with them.

I do believe they should have to have the same credentials as the GC does BUT most laws allow them to do X # of jobs as self owners without lisc or regulations. NOT really fair .

Flipping or remodeling (however you want to call it) should still be professionally done....BUT MOST are done for pure high profit and not workmanship. There are honest flippers whom do good jobs but they should still be governed the same as GC because IF they're doing it correctly they will be getting involved structurally sometime in most flips.

YES!! I did one flip but it consisted of purchasing, tidying up the interior, cleaning up the 2 acre lot and reselling....I covered/hid nothing. YES, I've had thoughts and chances to do more but most are high risk with small to no profits WHEN done correctly.....and most stats show that most home improvement costs very seldom reap more profit....actually only increase value of house less then the actual investment.

Sleeper, sorry to hear you had those experiences BUT I'm glad you were knowledgeable enough not to fall for them as MANY have. Good luck with your search.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
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post #8 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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I've recently watched a bunch of episodes of Holmes on Homes and Holmes Inspection - I never would have thought there were so many "professionals" out there who shouldn't be allowed to own a hammer.

I also watched some Flip or Flop - probably since he was on TV he didn't take stupid or dangerous shortcuts, but it was still funny to watch him struggle to turn a profit simply because he was ignorant.
Well this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. People Ignorant of Standard building practices trying to make a fast buck.
We have State Contractor Licensing in CA and I know even with that there are a lot criminal builders still getting by, but it does help. I was a Licensed Electrical Contractor and I saw a lot very dangerous work being done by licensed contractors, but they do eventually get caught when the house either burns down or an other contractor find it and turns them in.
I don't know what if any regulations are in effect in Nevada, but someone needs to protect unknowable people from getting swindled or worst lose their lives from this scum.
If only an inspector could drop by and give it a look over before the sale.

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post #9 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 09:42 AM
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I don't know what if any regulations are in effect in Nevada, but someone needs to protect unknowable people from getting swindled or worst lose their lives from this scum.
A lot of the Holmes on Homes episodes deal with people who hired a contractor who wanted money up front and skipped out on the job, or they've cut corners and did shoddy work without getting permits. There are laws to protect the homeowners from that, but the crooks set up shell companies so they can't be sued or charged with fraud.
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post #10 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 09:43 AM
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I would be all for stronger regulations against flippers, but ultimately that would come down to stronger regulations against contractors that perform at, or above acceptable levels in an already regulated industry.
The ones responsible for these shoddy flips are the agents that pay for the work done on the home. It's not a horrible industry (flipping), but it is full of good intentions, unrealistic expectations, and crappy budgets.

Just let the market sort it out. Pour workmanship will put the guy out of business or reduce his price which is the natural process we need to allow to take place.

Al


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post #11 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Sleeper View Post
Well this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. People Ignorant of Standard building practices trying to make a fast buck.
We have State Contractor Licensing in CA and I know even with that there are a lot criminal builders still getting by, but it does help. I was a Licensed Electrical Contractor and I saw a lot very dangerous work being done by licensed contractors, but they do eventually get caught when the house either burns down or an other contractor find it and turns them in.
I don't know what if any regulations are in effect in Nevada, but someone needs to protect unknowable people from getting swindled or worst lose their lives from this scum.
If only an inspector could drop by and give it a look over before the sale.

I've never seen any inspections or inspectors that deal with pour workmanship described in this thread.

Al


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post #12 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 11:38 AM
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As in any business, someone is always out to make a quick & dirty sales profit from those uninformed (buyers)! Most states do have "housing inspection" groups that are state/county operated or independently owned that should be contacted BEFORE you sign on the line!!! There should never be a charge to "just look" to make you aware of what you don't want! Be safe.
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post #13 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 12:39 PM
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Great, more Government overhead and regulations, no thanks, we need less Government, not more.

Everything in life is Buyer beware, but everyone wants someone to do the work for them. Bad Flippers exist because many people can't see past the pretty/shiny to the poor underlying workmanship. It will show up within a few years though, and then a lesson is learned.

Good Home Inspectors should catch the issues you pointed out. Note that I said "Good", there are some Inspectors that aren't worth their fee. Anytime I hear of someone with an issue that should have been caught, I tell them to circle back to the Inspector to see why it was missed.
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post #14 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 01:53 PM
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Everything in life is Buyer beware
Not in America! You can't hardly blame the populous when it's the gov't and society that's made it this way.

I'd venture to say that the houses are priced according to their condition.
I'm not saying that the "flippers" aren't being irresponsible, but ultimately, it's the market that decides the price. If nobody buys, then they'll have to lower the price. If they do, then they win. Is it their fault then? or the buyer's?
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 02:01 PM
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Not in America! You can't hardly blame the populous when it's the gov't and society that's made it this way.

I'd venture to say that the houses are priced according to their condition.
I'm not saying that the "flippers" aren't being irresponsible, but ultimately, it's the market that decides the price. If nobody buys, then they'll have to lower the price. If they do, then they win. Is it their fault then? or the buyer's?
Alright, then everything in life for me is buyer beware, guess I am the odd one out.
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post #16 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 04:00 PM
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NO MORE REGS!
Buyer Beware!

Don't bring a California mindset to the heartland.
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post #17 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 04:09 PM
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Alright, then everything in life for me is buyer beware, guess I am the odd one out.
You, me and few others, unfortunately.

In PA, there is no gov't sanctioned inspections. What you see is what you get. We have private home inspectors, but most of the time all they do is look for the obvious and right it down. Things like "shingles are worn" and "water heater doesn't light".

What's worse is that contractors in PA are "registered", but everybody thinks this means that they're qualified. It actually just means that they sent in a whopping $50 application fee and carry minimum insurance. Literally anybody can buck up about $100 / year for insurance and walk around saying "I'm a contractor!".

The worst part IMO, is that people think they're safe because of home inspections and licensed contractors. They think that Uncle Sam will (or should) dig them out of the hole they've dug and give them all their money back, many of whom didn't earn it in the first place.

Last edited by NickDIY; 09-25-2015 at 04:12 PM.
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post #18 of 20 Old 09-25-2015, 04:42 PM
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Regarding private home inspections :
Sometimes the realtor will have a recommended inspector, and while that sounds altruistic, it's often a part of their sale pitch. The inspector they recommend won't always catch everything, or will make loose statements regarding the issues they take note of.
This was apparent on a job I recently went to look at ; the homeowner requested a complete main floor hardwood flooring installation in their newly purchased home. I did the walk through with them and sold the job, and then was asked to look at a couple other items.
It was when I looked at a support issue on a porch addition that I was informed that the inspector had made note of a structural repair that needed to be done.
Needless to say, the recommendation was not adequate and now the ho is concerned over the increased cost of the project.
I don't want to go into a bunch of details, but I will say that the inspector obviously doesn't (A) know 100% what they should be taking note of, or (B) is in the realtors pocket.
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post #19 of 20 Old 09-26-2015, 02:06 AM
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Again it's 'Buyer Beware'.

Wether you are buying a home or a used car, the same applies. Find "Your Own" inspector or mechanic to look things over. To rely on a realtors advice or a car salesman's opinion is just foolish.

To institute more and more regs that cost us money and realizing that someone will just find a way to skirt the new law/ordinance anyways is just more insanity and intrusion. Also no inspector or mechanic will be able to find everything. I've been in the construction business and was a Building Commish. I have 36 years experience. Still I'll miss things on many occasions. So wether it's regulated or otherwise things get overlooked.

So if you don't have the expertise to inspect things yourselves, hire it done....BUT don't demand that I need to pay someone for your incapabilities. Don't institute more and more laws.
It gets to the point of financial insanity on may things required in homes. Don't add to the problem.
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post #20 of 20 Old 09-26-2015, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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I've never seen any inspections or inspectors that deal with pour workmanship described in this thread.

Al
It happens all the time here in CA although I do remember an inspector who got caught taking bribes to sign off on them.

The one thing nice is that if you have a CA licensed contractor do the work you can complain to the license board which immediately sets off an investigation and then you can collect the required bond.
Also building and health inspectors do report to the Contractors Board all the time when they see a pattern and I do know a few contractors who got caught.

I once bid on a rewiring job on a HUD house I think it was. I was very thorough in my estimate while keeping my bid low and another guy got the bid for about a 3rd less then mine. I just couldn't believe it until I ran into an electrician that used to work for me. He said they just pulled the boxes out of the wall, connected a short piece of Romax to the old wire and stuffed it up into the wall with a new box. Wow I was furious and immediately called the HUD Office and the license board. I never did find out what happened with it, but I never saw that guy bidding against me after that.

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