Raised panel by hand - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 06-12-2016, 02:54 AM Thread Starter
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Raised panel by hand

I've been working on a cabinet for what seems like forever now, and have finally begun to build the doors! I have only a band saw and circular saw for power tools, so most of my work is done by hand. I got the idea to use a smoothing plane to raise a panel from Paul sellers on YouTube. I do sort of wish that I could give the panel a bit more depth or shadow, but I think within the molding that I made it will look ok.

I still have to cut the rebates into the back of the panel to make it fit into the frame.

I do have a small reservation about this method for making the panel, which is that the front isn't flat where the panel fits into the frame. I'm planning to give it a little wiggle room - not too much though since it's been quite humid lately. I think if the panel moves at this point it will more likely shrink than expand.
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post #2 of 25 Old 06-12-2016, 10:28 AM
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Impressive work with a hand plane.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #3 of 25 Old 06-12-2016, 12:15 PM
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I really like mitred doors. Well done with the plane.
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post #4 of 25 Old 06-12-2016, 01:33 PM
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Good show with the hand plane! Keep it up.

Keep thy axe sharp.
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post #5 of 25 Old 06-12-2016, 02:33 PM
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You could square the lip up on your table saw.

Looks very good to me, THANKS FOR SHARING,

Dale in Indy, scratch Model builder
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post #6 of 25 Old 06-12-2016, 03:52 PM
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Looks beautiful.
I've been researching this ... the expansion/contraction rates of different wood. The wood you're using, and the mass of wood you'll have in place, your fit will not change enough to matter.
If you make it tight, and it expands, it'll just get a little tighter. It won't expand enough to push the frame out.
If it loosens, it's won't shrink enough to fall out or anything.
The expansion/contraction will likely be unnoticeable.
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post #7 of 25 Old 06-12-2016, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikechell View Post
Looks beautiful.
I've been researching this ... the expansion/contraction rates of different wood. The wood you're using, and the mass of wood you'll have in place, your fit will not change enough to matter.
If you make it tight, and it expands, it'll just get a little tighter. It won't expand enough to push the frame out.
If it loosens, it's won't shrink enough to fall out or anything.
The expansion/contraction will likely be unnoticeable.
Famous last words. :smile3:
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post #8 of 25 Old 06-12-2016, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikechell View Post
Looks beautiful.
I've been researching this ... the expansion/contraction rates of different wood. The wood you're using, and the mass of wood you'll have in place, your fit will not change enough to matter.
If you make it tight, and it expands, it'll just get a little tighter. It won't expand enough to push the frame out.
If it loosens, it's won't shrink enough to fall out or anything.
The expansion/contraction will likely be unnoticeable.
Hmmm, Hmmm, Hmmmm....Frank C some people live in a fantasy world. I haven't found enough info from this thread on the wood to come to this conclusion. ANY expansion with the panel angle that appears in picture will shatter the panel groove or most likely the mitered corners which are usually the weakest joint.

Jeremy I've made panels similar to these years ago. You either need a 1/4" of flat surface around edge our a very slight angle from one or both sides....you need a flat/almost flat floating surface in the groove....the panel will MOVE in or out if not both with any MC change depending on how controlled the enviroment in which it's placed.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
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post #9 of 25 Old 06-13-2016, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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Here's the dry fit of the panel after cutting the rebates into the back. I still am a little concerned about the sloped panel expanding. With it clamped tightly and the miters all seated I am able to wiggle the panel side to side maybe 1/8 of an inch. It's not perfectly flush where the sides of the panel meet the groove because of how deep I cut the rebate on the back.

I might mock up a small panel from some scrap and see what it looks like if I just cut a 1/4" wide rebate into the front too. I don't have a nice rebate plane, so I'm a little afraid that it'll be ugly, and I really like the way the panel looks this way.

I don't own a table saw, so this has been quite a process! I don't plan to build many more cabinets... It's been fun, and I really appreciate antique furniture now, but it's a heck of a lot of work with no table saw and no thickness planer. Learned a lot though, for sure.
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post #10 of 25 Old 06-13-2016, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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Oh and I should add - I'll be splining the miters, so the joints should be reasonably strong. Not just gluing them up as is.
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post #11 of 25 Old 06-13-2016, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
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I think if anthing fails in this door it will be the bead on the inside. I don't own a 1/4" beading plane, so rather than try to use a scratch stock in red oak I used my 3/8" beading plane. There ended up only being about 3/16" of wood left supporting the bead because of how it intersected with the groove for the panel.
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post #12 of 25 Old 06-13-2016, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, and this is air dried lumber from here in Pennsylvania, so not extremely dry to begin with, which is good, I think, as it will be in the bathroom of a house without air conditioning or any sort of climate control besides fans.
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post #13 of 25 Old 06-13-2016, 01:27 AM
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Jeremy IF you have a 1/8" of play and your moving it fairly easily by hand You'll probably alright with it being AD...IF you try to shave any on the front edge you'll be too loose and it'll fit sloppy then.... IF you plan on staining do at least the panel edges prior putting together in case there is any shrinkage the bare wood doesn't show. DON"T seal it with a finish prior putting together or it will stick in the groove and not float but split edges.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
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post #14 of 25 Old 06-13-2016, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Tim. I'm pretty new to woodworking in general, so have certainly learned a lot from this project. I think I will try to just assemble the doors as they are now. Worst case scenario I'll have to make new doors down the road. The cabinet is for my wife and I to use, so not a huge deal if it isn't completely perfect. You should see my hand cut dovetails on the carcass of the cabinet! Lol. The ones that we'll see every day are nice, but the side that will face the corner of the bathroom looks a bit gap toothed! Definitely has character.

Interesting that you suggested not applying polyurethane to the panel before assembly - I had previously been advised to put the first coat on before assembly to keep glue squeeze out from gluing the panel to the inside of the grooves. I'll have to think about that. I could see the poly adding some friction, and also a bit of thickness to the panel.

This whole project has kind of felt like a gamble from start to finish! I'm crossing my fingers that I can get these doors to look good and last a while. Probably could have made some simpler design choices and made this process a bit easier on myself.
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post #15 of 25 Old 06-13-2016, 09:07 AM
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Jeremy, I don't think I ever said you've done a great job on your project, you've exceeded what most of us with the elite power tool shops still try to acquire. Be PROUD of your accomplishment(s) and learn from your mistakes.....BELIEVE me, I didn't have any craftsmen in my area or knowledge range (computers, only commercial then....telling my age now). I was given some advice BUT I found quickly it was unfounded/lacked truth and the learning curve began. NOPE I've never stopped learning and re-learning (some things we are taught or the knowledge acquired has to be thrown out and minds retrained correctly). IF your capable to do this grand of workmanship by hand you also have the mind to think and rethink theories you'll hear and keep the good parts and apply them for making better.

OH YES I've made many mistakes, BUT I don't intend to REmake any of them knowingly.....A man whom tells you he's never made a mistake has NEVER done anything AND sometime he'll realize his mistake is he never accomplished anything!!!

ENJOY your venture and MANY more!!!! You'll be fine
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post #16 of 25 Old 06-13-2016, 02:43 PM
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And if you have a ROUTER TABLE, you can set the fence, then using a straight bit, square up the panel edges.

But if you DON'T then edge plane. I would think 1/8" wiggle should work.

I wish you well,

Dale in Indy
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post #17 of 25 Old 06-13-2016, 09:51 PM
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That is a really nice looking mitered door, man! Fantastic work with limited tools. Did you use one of those mujinfang rounds to do the door sticking?
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post #18 of 25 Old 06-14-2016, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the compliments everyone. I have to admit that I feel a little silly sint hat I did all of this with hand planes. Originally I was using hand tools because I could get old ones for cheap online. But then I kind of got obsessed!

Jack plane, smoothing, Scrub, jointer, rebate skew rebate, simple and complex molding planes, Japanese razor saws, files... Goes on and on. I could have bought a used table saw, a power planer, and a variable speed router with a table and some specialized bits for just a little more money, and saved myself a lot of work! But I have to admit that I like the feel of hand planes, and the silence. Also the relative lack of sawdust (at least until I got my band saw).

Yes I did use a mujingfang round for the frame of the door. I really enjoy those planes! I actually used a mujingfang plow plane to cut the grooves for the panel, and to make a slot to guide the round plane. I don't like it as well as the rounds, it it's pretty cheap and it did the job. Not much fun to use though.

The molding is another small error - the cove goes so far into the frame that I can't really attach a knob where it ought to go. My workaround is going to be to use a handle instead and mount it a little off center flat area of the molding. Also considered drilling a flat bottomed hole with a forstner bit to fit the stem of the knob, but decided against it.
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post #19 of 25 Old 06-14-2016, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
I got the idea to use a smoothing plane to raise a panel from Paul sellers on YouTube. I do sort of wish that I could give the panel a bit more depth or shadow, but I think within the molding that I made it will look ok.
You did a good job overall.

If you want the field(the flat section at the centre) to stand out, then use a shoulder plane first, guided by a batten. Then finish with a handplane.

Here is a link to creating a raised panel using a rebate plane: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...ingapanel.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
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post #20 of 25 Old 06-14-2016, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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So Derek, looks like you inserted the sloped edge into the go frame of the door? How're those doors holding up? They're very nice looking in the tutorial. I like the diamond detail in the center.

I considered trying to use a rebate plane around the raised field, but I really don't have a fine rebate plane like the veritas. I just have old wooden ones, which are fine for rebates for joinery, but they're a bit coarse tools for a face that will show. Even on straight grained wood it's difficult to get a nice clean rebate with them. Especially across the grain. So I'm going to leave it as is for now. Maybe in the future I'll acquire a nicer rebate plane.
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