Presto Chango..2 Species Door - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 8 Old 10-16-2011, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
Senior Sawdust Producer
 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 4,347
View Leo G's Photo Album My Photos
Presto Chango..2 Species Door

I am currently working on a Sapele' bar, which is phase II. Phase I was the Maple theater. In the bar area there is a wall that connects to the theater. It has a pass through hole in it that needs a sliding door. Small door, cabinet door size.

I have made other doors that had different species glued back to back and they never seem to fair well. The different expansion rates between the joint of the wood causes the door to eventually change shape and get a bend in it, warp it.

So this time I chose to make a stave core door. The core being MDF.


Started off by taking a Maple board and a Sapele' board and gluing them together edge to edge. Then ripped them so there was 3/8" of each by 15/16" wide.



Then I took multi strip and sandwiched it between two MDF edges and glued them together.





After they dried I cut them in half leaving 5/16" of solid wood and the rest MDF.



That forms the inside edge of the door, the outside is just going to be Maple, so I cut the MDF so when the glue up is cut to size I will have 1/4" of both Maple and the Maple/Sapele' solid on each 2 3/8" slab.



That is what I got done on this today. Tomorrow I will make some 1/8" veneers out of the Maple and Sapele' and glue them on the front and back completing the stave core.

OK, I unclamped the pcs and ran them through the widebelt to get them around 11/16" thick. Then I cut them apart.





The I took some solid stock, some nice looking pcs, and cut my veneers from them. I just set the fence at 1/8" and ran the 2 9/16" stock vertically up against my fence, Jointed the face and did it again. This gave me two pcs of veneer, one for each face of the stiles and rails.





Then I needed to glue the veneers onto the stave cores. This will bring my total thickness of the staves to 15/16", which is thicker than I want for the final product.


Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com
Leo G is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 Old 10-16-2011, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
Senior Sawdust Producer
 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 4,347
View Leo G's Photo Album My Photos
Here they are being pressed and glued. I am using my shapers for flat surfaces. I will likely leave them clamped until Monday. That way it will be a full cure and all the water from the glue will have migrated out. This should prevent any movements from the water based glue. If I had some Unibond 800 in the shop I would have used that instead.





Started back up on the two species door. Today I took the sandwich stiles and rails out of the clamps and milled them to size.




I glued up a board that I would use for the Sapele' panel and I picked out a pc of a 1/4" Maple MDF sheet. Went over to my buddies shop and ran the 1/4" MDF through the widebelt to get rid of one of the veneers and bring it down to 3/16". By the time I got through all the glue I was down to .1840", so just under 3/16". I ran the Sapele' through the sander to flatten it out and prepare it for gluing to the MDF.

To mate the two panels I am using West System Epoxy. I don't have a good way to press the panels together to use PVA glue and the epoxy doesn't require pressure.

MDF and Sapele'




Ready to be glued together


My gluing strategy was simple. A flat surface, my shaper table, a pc of MDF and some weight. I put some waxed paper between the MDF and the glue up and a plastic bag over the shaper top to keep things clean.





While I was waiting for the epoxy to cure I started working on the stiles and rails. Normally I would make a tongue and groove setup for a door, but because this has an MDF core the MDF tongue would be to weak to make a good tongue. So instead I used 3/8" x 3" spiral dowels. I drilled the dowel holes with my antique Stanley No.59 doweling jig.

Then I needed a groove, so I setup my dado in the TS for .250" and ran my rails all the way through and did stop dadoes for the stiles.







After the panel cures it will go through the sander to get it to about 1/4" and fit snugly into the slot and then the door will be glued up.

I got the panel out of the "press" and planed it down to just under 5/16". I ran it through Ron's widebelt sander to get it down to .240" and then coated it with sealer on both sides. After sanding the sealer I glued up the stiles, rails and dowels and inserted the panel and clamped it up.

After a few hours I took it out and sanded the glue off. Tomorrow I will send it through the sander to get the thickness from 15/16" to 7/8". Maybe even 13/16" which is my standard door thickness.

Here is a very short video of the door.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com

Last edited by Leo G; 10-17-2011 at 08:32 AM.
Leo G is offline  
post #3 of 8 Old 10-17-2011, 04:52 AM
Old School
 
cabinetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 24,027
View cabinetman's Photo Album My Photos
Leo, for the pieces cut that thin for R&S's, it's likely that you wouldn't have movement issues. I've done similar two sided flat panels without a problem.

If both species were acclimated, you should have been OK. Have you tried just using 1/4" plywoods, laminated, and edge banded? But, in any case it's an involved procedure you did there to make sure. What type of sliding assembly/hardware are you planning?

Here is your video:








.
cabinetman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 8 Old 10-17-2011, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
Senior Sawdust Producer
 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 4,347
View Leo G's Photo Album My Photos
The hardware is HO supplied. Just a track with a set of double wheels. Looks like it might be closet door hardware. That is what the extended stiles are for. So they will reach the hardware.

I don't trust putting the two species together. I have done it before and had results less than splendid. This will eliminate any call backs and worries.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com
Leo G is offline  
post #5 of 8 Old 10-17-2011, 11:01 PM
Forgotten but not gone
 
TexasTimbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,677
View TexasTimbers's Photo Album My Photos
That's pretty sharp Leo. I've never seen that method. I agree with you about back-to-back differing species unless their movement is quite similar. Maybe the species C'man used were close in movement so he encountered no problems. But I can't imagine a Mesquite/White Oak panel glued back-to-back being a good idea under any circumstance.

Have you considered not gluing the dissimilar panels together at all, but allowing to float within a frame like a raised panel but made to look like a solid core? Keep in mind I have limited cabinet skills but it seems plausible to me. You could eliminate any rattle with a thin foam sheet between them. Proper selection would be key to avoid cupping. Seems to me like it'd be less work but probably I'm not considering something.






.
TexasTimbers is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old 10-17-2011, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
Senior Sawdust Producer
 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 4,347
View Leo G's Photo Album My Photos
Not to worried about the floating panel, more worried about the back to back species on the stiles and rails.

I have a hard enough time getting solid wood to stay put when making doors. Two interactive species glued to each other is asking for trouble.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com
Leo G is offline  
post #7 of 8 Old 10-18-2011, 12:57 PM
Forgotten but not gone
 
TexasTimbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,677
View TexasTimbers's Photo Album My Photos
Well that's what I was suggesting - not gluing the actual panels back to back. Letting them float against each other and within the frame. The only components to be glued would be the R&S's.






.
TexasTimbers is offline  
post #8 of 8 Old 10-18-2011, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
Senior Sawdust Producer
 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 4,347
View Leo G's Photo Album My Photos
If the door had been thicker I might have done that. And I did think about it. But the total panel thickness was only 1/4" and two 1/8" pcs back to back might have a tendency to want to curl.

I was surprised. I looked up on the shrinkalator and Sugar Maple (hard) moved about 80% more that the (flat sawn) Sapele'. I was sure it was going to be the other way around.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com
Leo G is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which species should be quartersawn? molf20 Forestry & Milling 10 06-16-2011 01:50 PM
does anyone know the species of wood i have here? ihackwood General Woodworking Discussion 3 03-02-2011 07:38 PM
Replace hinged door with sliding door... Joek Trim Carpentry & Built-Ins 8 07-30-2010 03:30 PM
Which Species of Wood? intogames20 General Woodworking Discussion 5 06-01-2009 10:47 PM
What species do you think this is? PTownSubbie Forestry & Milling 9 04-28-2009 04:22 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome