Wood wants to lift when beginning a cut on table saw - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 34 Old 01-01-2020, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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This a new blade that I had installed.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1


It saids its for a table saw. Do you still think the blade is the issue.
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post #22 of 34 Old 01-01-2020, 06:32 PM
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Are you sure that's the same blade? The Amazon listing says it's a +5 degree rake, but your picture sure looks like a -5 degree rake. Can you take the blade out and take a straight-on picture. Also see if there is any printing on the plate to identify its geometry.
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post #23 of 34 Old 01-01-2020, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdragon View Post
Hi


Am I the only one that has noticed that it looks like he is cross cutting using the rip fence. Does it push up on all types of wood or just that piece?

Whatever you call it, I would do exactly the same with a piece of wood that large.


George
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post #24 of 34 Old 01-02-2020, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
Are you sure that's the same blade? The Amazon listing says it's a +5 degree rake, but your picture sure looks like a -5 degree rake. Can you take the blade out and take a straight-on picture. Also see if there is any printing on the plate to identify its geometry.
Here is the saw blade that was in the saw.
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post #25 of 34 Old 01-02-2020, 06:18 PM
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Definitely a positive rake.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
Finishing is 3 parts chemistry and 1 part VooDoo http://lrgwood.com
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post #26 of 34 Old 01-02-2020, 06:59 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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OK, the consensus is ......

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Originally Posted by Leo G View Post
Or it's a very dull blade. Raise it up higher.
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Raise the blade more. 1/2" above the wood should stop it. Full tooth above the wood is about the minimum you can really do and that's for safety but can still push the wood away.
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I would try raising the blade an inch above the wood and try it.
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Be careful with this conclusion. That anti-kickback design does exactly what it is intended to do...it limits how much "bite" each tooth is permitted to take at once. As a matter of fact, his "problem" is actually testament to the effectiveness of the design.

As was mentioned, the low blade height is what is causing the board to lift on feeding, but it is also the anti-kickback design that is "activating" (for lack of a better word) that helps foster the problem. When an un-cut portion of the wood is pressed into the anti-kickback gullet, the gullet is intended to push it back. But because the blade is so low, pushing back translates into pushing-up.


.
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Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
We got it figured out now!

It's not only the wrong type blade, but it set way too low no matter.
The lower the blade, there are more teeth there are tending to "push" against the feed pressure making it more difficult to feed. A higher blade has fewer teeth entering at a steeper angle pressing down against the material and cutting more efficiently. Again, it's about the physics and forces involved.
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Definitely a positive rake.

Raise the blade! I would not use that blade in a table saw, it's just not enough "positive" rake for ripping. I prefer 15 degrees. Like I said way back when ..... get a Diablo 40 or 50 tooth blade and be done with it.



https://www.diablotools.com/products/D1040X



https://www.diablotools.com/products/D1050X



The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #27 of 34 Old 01-02-2020, 06:59 PM
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Yup, I can see that it's a positive rake too.



So going back to the original question, the root problem is blade height. This is a cross-cut blade, and it should give you excellent results cutting sheet goods with limited tearout. The anti-kickback feature will limit your feed-speed, so just feel for that as you feed your stock. It will resist forward movement once the kickback gullets are reached. (But don't over-focus on that. Many inexperienced woodworkers tend to feed too slowly.)


Moving forward, you should probably consider getting a good combination blade for general ripping and crosscuts, and save this blade for cutting fine veneer sheet goods. Just a suggestion, though.


I'd also like to discuss the causes for why so much of the paint has been rubbed off the blade's plate. Have you done any specific operations where that should have been expected, or is this just general use?
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post #28 of 34 Old 01-02-2020, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
I would not use that blade in a table saw, it's just not enough "positive" rake for ripping.

I disagree. While this blade is very poor for ripping, it does make a very good choice for a plywood blade with minimal tearout. The ATB tooth design coupled with the low rake angle will minimize tearout. I would use it as my main veneer/plywood blade (not to be confused with construction plywood).
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post #29 of 34 Old 01-02-2020, 07:09 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Cutting plywood is NOT ripping!

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Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
I disagree. While this blade is very poor for ripping, it does make a very good choice for a plywood blade with minimal tearout. The ATB tooth design coupled with the low rake angle will minimize tearout. I would use it as my main veneer/plywood blade (not to be confused with construction plywood).

Since the grain in plywood is cross directional, ripping is about the same as crosscutting. I really don't classify plywood in with solid woods. I was referring to ripping solid wood, especially hardwood which is what our OP was trying to do .... I think?


As far as the paint being rubbed off, a sign of misalignment, possibly overheated and dull blade...?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-02-2020 at 07:13 PM.
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post #30 of 34 Old 01-02-2020, 07:12 PM
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You're focusing on the core, but when cutting fine plywood, it is the surface veneer that is of importance.
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post #31 of 34 Old 01-03-2020, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
Good point. I just took a closer look at the picture, and it does appear to be a negative hook angle crosscut blade. The blade is intended to be used on a radial arm saw or a miter saw, but not (specifically) for a tablesaw. That's not to say it can't be used, but just not for this particular operation. It would probably perform fairly well for breaking down sheet goods.


<EDIT> I've added the closeup picture I was using to draw my conclusion. I can see the negative rake on it. Coupled with the anti-kickback feature, it is clear that this is a mitersaw or radial arm saw blade.
Rick yes that is it good observation. Heís also ripping with a crosscut and low blade height.

@toolagnostic thanks for that info Iíve always assumed raise to bottom of gullets from experience Iíve found that doesnít work well especially when ripping, so it makes sense. Lower height gives less tear out in ply but thatís what a zci is for, right?

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post #32 of 34 Old 01-03-2020, 09:25 AM
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I agree with Rick. I'd check and see why so much paint if off the sides of the blade. Looks likes its binding or something. The wood might be hitting the back of the blade on the side and picking it up.
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post #33 of 34 Old 01-04-2020, 08:58 AM
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What does the other side of the blade look like? Same amount of paint wore off?
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post #34 of 34 Old 01-04-2020, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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ok. Thanks everyone for the responses and suggestions. I will raise the blade higher and see how it goes. Alternatively, the table saw came with a new 40tooth blade and I can use that as well. Thought the finer tooth would give me a better overall cut. Sounds like I should reserve this blade for plywood cutting. Also, I had this blade on the old saw and it did not experience the lift.

But as a newbie, this was very educational and I appreciate everyone's feedback.

So should I look for a daiblo 40 or 50 combo blade going forward?
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