Why does my saw now trip the surge protector, - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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Why does my saw now trip the surge protector,

I've been using a 1.75hp table saw for a couple years now. It has been plugged into a 10 receptacle power strip designed for "garage" use and has a 15 amp built in breaker. This has worked great for a couple years. However, recently the power strip surge protector trips every time I turn on my saw. There is nothing else plugged into the power strip and no other tools running running on the circuit.

I tried a different power strip with the same results. I have been forced to run an extension cord from the wall outlet in order to use my saw. Any idea why this would have changed?
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post #2 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 07:43 PM
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My guess is it's broken. But then I'm just a woodworker wondering why your using a surge protector on a table saw.

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post #3 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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The main reason is because in my small shop I have very few outlets and a lot of tools that need to be plugged in. The power strip seems to work great for all of them (jointer, planer, bandsaw, SCMS, DC, spindle sander, etc) except the TS.

I do have a lonely 220V outlet that is begging for my TS to get rewired. Honestly, I want to convert the TS to 220 but am a little bit intimidated.
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post #4 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 08:12 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Fear not!

With a proper diagram usually found under the plate or right on the motor decal you will have no problems. I would take a photo of the wires as they are at present however.

Here's a sample diagram, probably like yours....


Your motor will have terminals labled as T1, T2 etc OR it may have color coded wires. red, black white etc. just follow the diagram.








The next issue is to proper wire the plug for the receptacle. Some are 3 prong other have 4 prongs.
Mine are just 3 prongs, 2 for hot and one for neutral.
Size the wiring according to the amperage, BUT if the motor is currently on 120 V, the wiring should be just fine.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-06-2015 at 08:15 PM.
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post #5 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterjer View Post
I've been using a 1.75hp table saw for a couple years now. It has been plugged into a 10 receptacle power strip designed for "garage" use and has a 15 amp built in breaker. This has worked great for a couple years. However, recently the power strip surge protector trips every time I turn on my saw. There is nothing else plugged into the power strip and no other tools running running on the circuit.

I tried a different power strip with the same results. I have been forced to run an extension cord from the wall outlet in order to use my saw. Any idea why this would have changed?
I would stop using it until I figured out what was wrong with it if it were mine.

Does it get hot or smell burnt when it trips?
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post #6 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
With a proper diagram usually found under the plate or right on the motor decal you will have no problems. I would take a photo of the wires as they are at present however.

The next issue is to proper wire the plug for the receptacle. Some are 3 prong other have 4 prongs.
Mine are just 3 prongs, 2 for hot and one for neutral.
Size the wiring according to the amperage, BUT if the motor is currently on 120 V, the wiring should be just fine.
I *believe* you have 2 hot and one ground, not a neutral.

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post #7 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 09:51 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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not mine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchymist View Post
I *believe* you have 2 hot and one ground, not a neutral.
There are quite a few 3 wire receptacles that call the center terminal ground or neutral interchangeably. Mine goes to the neutral bar in the panel.

Here's a sample diagram:



The 4 wire ones have a separate ground terminal:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #8 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 10:11 PM
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Where can you use a 3 wire 240 outlet today? (One that's not grandfathered in). As far as I know only the 2 hot with ground or the 4 wire version is allowed anymore.

Alexis de Tocqueville was a very smart man.
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post #9 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterjer View Post
I've been using a 1.75hp table saw for a couple years now. It has been plugged into a 10 receptacle power strip designed for "garage" use and has a 15 amp built in breaker. This has worked great for a couple years. However, recently the power strip surge protector trips every time I turn on my saw. There is nothing else plugged into the power strip and no other tools running running on the circuit.

I tried a different power strip with the same results. I have been forced to run an extension cord from the wall outlet in order to use my saw. Any idea why this would have changed?
More than likely the surge protector is getting worn out. They get soft like circuit breakers.

It sounds like you need to put in a sub-panel in your shop. If you can physically pull the wire from your main breaker to your shop it would be pretty simple to do and we would help you.
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post #10 of 29 Old 09-06-2015, 11:45 PM
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Years ago I bought a 2-pack of 6-outlet power strips for under $10, no breakers or surge protectors, I just wanted more outlets. I just have to be sure not to run more off it than it's rated for (which is 20A).
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post #11 of 29 Old 09-07-2015, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnealWoodworking
I would stop using it until I figured out what was wrong with it if it were mine. Does it get hot or smell burnt when it trips?
No it doesn't get hot or smell. I just bought a new one thinking the old one was bad and it trips right away too just as the saw starts coming up to speed.

I am wondering if there may be some friction in my saw making it work a little harder to get up to speed which could cause the extra current draw.
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post #12 of 29 Old 09-07-2015, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterjer View Post

I am wondering if there may be some friction in my saw making it work a little harder to get up to speed which could cause the extra current draw.


That's what I was going to suggest. Check the saw over real good.
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post #13 of 29 Old 09-07-2015, 03:59 PM
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Do you have an amp meter to check the actual current the saw is pulling? If the label says it's suppose to pull 10 amps, for instance, and it's pulling 15, then you have a problem with your saw. If it's pulling the correct current then the problem lies elsewhere.

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post #14 of 29 Old 09-07-2015, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
Do you have an amp meter to check the actual current the saw is pulling? If the label says it's suppose to pull 10 amps, for instance, and it's pulling 15, then you have a problem with your saw. If it's pulling the correct current then the problem lies elsewhere.
Good suggestion.

A Kill-A-Watt meter with tell him all this and more very easily for 25 bucks or less without having to learn electronics to be able to actually USE it...
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post #15 of 29 Old 09-07-2015, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterjer View Post
No it doesn't get hot or smell. I just bought a new one thinking the old one was bad and it trips right away too just as the saw starts coming up to speed.

I am wondering if there may be some friction in my saw making it work a little harder to get up to speed which could cause the extra current draw.
I meant the saw not the power strip... You already ruled out the power strip being defective.
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post #16 of 29 Old 09-08-2015, 10:56 AM
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a true 1.75 hp motor can draw close to 15 amps depending on efficiency and other factors of the motor. the motor plate will tell you the rated current. at start up, a motor is in a high current draw condition until speed is reached. this will likely trip an Over Load Protection device not rated for motors (time delay).

your power strip may not be rated accordingly. my guess is that the OLP device was close but did not trip before. now that the saw has aged (bearing wear, dirt, friction, etc.), the start up current is a little higher tripping the breaker. it should probably be on a 20 circuit anyway - check motor label.

Last edited by TimPa; 09-08-2015 at 12:43 PM.
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post #17 of 29 Old 09-08-2015, 12:03 PM
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What type of motor do you have, unless it is totally enclosed it will be loaded with sawdust by now which kills most motors, but can often be remedied by a clean out. You are right on the cusp with 15 amps so any extra resistance will put it over the limit.

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post #18 of 29 Old 09-08-2015, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll check the motor plate. The saw is a 2 yr old Jet Proshop with a 1.75hp motor.

I think a good clean out of the motor is on my immediate list of things to do. Followed by wiring it for 220.
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post #19 of 29 Old 09-08-2015, 02:44 PM
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The problem could also be before the surge strip. If you're getting resistance from a bad connection or a bad outlet, it can have the effect of increasing amp draw.

Your saw may have peaked at 13 amps at 118 volts before, but if it's only getting 106v at full load, it may be 16 amps now.

The strip itself will innately add some resistance, so eliminating it may be why it works without it, though not necessarily the root of the problem.
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post #20 of 29 Old 09-08-2015, 06:14 PM
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Odds are the surge protector is worn out, same thing happens to GFI's over time. Plug the saw into the wall outlet and turn it on if it runs you are good to go. I would skip buying a new surge protector since its job is to protect what you have plugged in from line surges that could harm it. Good for a computer not needed for power tools. A simple fused outlet strip is all you need to protect your home wiring system if you're concerned.

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Last edited by Ron Restorff; 09-08-2015 at 06:17 PM.
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