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post #1 of 24 Old 01-10-2019, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Tool purchase advise

First off this is my first post and glad to be apart of this forum, looking forward to all the possible help. I am loooking at making several purchases here in the near future table saw, shaper, drum sander, etc... I have researched many different areas and talking points and it seems there are so many different opinions it's hard to compress the pros and cons to a reliable source. My first purchase will be a table saw followed by a shaper so I would like to start there. I built cabinets growing up but didn't pay much attention to the equipment growing up and looking to get back into it. Money is not a real concern but can make or break a reason to buy. I'm the type that would rather spend the money now and not wish later and wind up spending twice the amount if I would of just bit the bullet and did what I needed to do in the first place. Main talking points-
Brands
Country of manufacturing
Availablility of parts
HP rating 3 or 5
Quality
Customer service

Any other talking points others have that would be helpful is much appreciated.
Give me your opinions like I said willing to spend upwards of 5k just on table saw from what I've seen that covers just about all the general cabinet building table saws by a long shot. Could be wrong but let me know what you guys think! Thank you in advance!!!!
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-10-2019, 09:03 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Tablesaws!

Go to Grizzly and look at all the table saws and you'll get a good idea of the various "types". I have a buddy who is a woodworker professional and we compared our shops ... 2 or 3 RAS, and multiple tablesaws arranged on a large support/outfeed table. He had some Craftsman 10"saws, a Unisaw or 2 and then ...... he got a Min Max slider on my encouragement. He now sleeps on that saw because he loves it so much! He never had a slider before and there was a learning curve but it's "the" go to saw now.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gri...ble-Saw/G0623X


https://www.grizzly.com/table-saws



So, if you have a sizeable budget I would seriously consider one. Maybe in addition to another saw for dados.... I donno?



My setup is unique in that I have 3 identical 12" saws bolted together to form a large Sawzilla:



I can crosscut a 4 X 8 panel in half:



I have a rip blade in the left side saw, a 50 tooth in the center saw, and a dado set on the right side saw along with a router table with a PC 3.25 HP router extension. This works well for me because I don't like changing saw blades or dado sets on a single saw.


In addition I also have a Bosch 4100 job site saw for the rare occasion I have to work outside or at a different location. Finally, I have a Craftsman 10" hybrid, a really nice smooth running and adjusting saw for bevel cuts and other specialty operations. Ooops I forget about the 2 axis panel saw I made that will cross cut or rip a 4 X 8 sheet. That is kept in a different shop, so I forgot about it.



As you now can tell, just one saw can work for most folks, but in my case I wanted a different setup and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg, since I either built it or assembled it.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-10-2019 at 09:10 PM.
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post #3 of 24 Old 01-11-2019, 08:18 AM
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Some like the safety of these: https://www.sawstop.com/build#build-...al-cabinet-saw It has an optional sliding table.
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post #4 of 24 Old 01-11-2019, 12:42 PM
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I assume that @Woody132 lives in the USA, and cost and space are not a major consideration.

If I were Woody132, I would buy the 5 (or 7.5?) horsepower SawStop industrial cabinet saw with all the bells and whistles. SawStop makes excellent saws, and still has a monopoly on the blade retraction safety feature in USA. Just to be clear, not everyone agrees that the blade retraction safety feature is important in a table saw. I do, and SawStop makes a very good saw, too.

DUST COLLECTION AND SUPPRESSION:
Woody132 should also buy a good dust collection system to use with the new table saw. Plan dust collection to support the future tools as well as the table saw. If the shop is a closed space, then air filtration may also be considered.

SAFETY, LIGHTING, POWER, ETC.
There are many other considerations, such as safety, lighting, power, storage, maintenance, etc.
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post #5 of 24 Old 01-11-2019, 01:08 PM
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It all depends on what your intended use of the tools are, commercial or hobbyist?
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-11-2019, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Appreciate all the recent replies and yes I am located in the US most brands are pretty readily available. Tools will be used for hobby at first but want to have sizable tools for small production at some point. I've been reading saying most people will never strain a 3hp tablesaw with general use unless it's has a feeder running 8 HR days.
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-11-2019, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody132 View Post
...Main talking points-
Brands
Country of manufacturing
Availablility of parts
HP rating 3 or 5
Quality
Customer service...
Hi Woody132,

As others have related, it will depend on your style of woodworking, as well as, your preferences...

I'm a "traditionalist" in my work professionally so finish all my work "by hand tool" only 98% of the time...

So, for me, tools are either traditional and/or very old. This goes for the shop tools I like and have ever invested in...

Examples, Northfield and Oliver is our go to for most things (in that order of preference) Our newest power tool in the "floor class" is the Northfield 34" Band-saw at 1978. The table saw is an 18" Northfield and from the 40's (?) and the 24" jointer is an Oliver from the 40's and the Cresent 24" planer is also from the 40's...All are 3 phase and the smallest motor is (?) 3 horse...

Old tools like this have a "sweet spot" in cost that once arived, never really end and only then go up in price. As for performance...Well, lets just say they don't make them like they use to accept for Northfield as they are still in business...

Shop around, and think of the woodworking you wish to do. Big old tools can do the work you need and then some, hold there value, and are well loved by all that own them. Parts aren't typically an issue at all, and there performance is world class for the most part. Case in point whey you get a 18" table saw blade cutting, and raise to its 5" plus depth of cut, anything that goes in there is cut fast, clean and without any issue...Same for the rest of this class of professional vintage tools...

Hand tools are prettying much the same...either antique or modern hand made copies of the originals...

Happy time making saw dust...

j
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-11-2019, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody132 View Post
Appreciate all the recent replies and yes I am located in the US most brands are pretty readily available. Tools will be used for hobby at first but want to have sizable tools for small production at some point. I've been reading saying most people will never strain a 3hp tablesaw with general use unless it's has a feeder running 8 HR days.

Your right about most people never straining a 3 hp saw doing hobby work, but i would guess they think that MAYBE down the line it may be useful so they spring for it, and spend money that is not needed in doing so, back when the Craftsman 22124 zip code saw came out i bought one, and on occasion cut some 100 year old oak that was 2 1/2" thick on that saw and it went through like a champ, but i did have a Forrest woodworker II blade on it, the motor on that saw was only one and a half horse as i recall.
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post #9 of 24 Old 01-11-2019, 09:53 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Old iron is heavy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody132 View Post
Appreciate all the recent replies and yes I am located in the US most brands are pretty readily available. Tools will be used for hobby at first but want to have sizable tools for small production at some point. I've been reading saying most people will never strain a 3hp tablesaw with general use unless it's has a feeder running 8 HR days.

I have a buddy who makes raised panel doors commercially and he has a shop full of massive old iron machines, 16" Porter joiner, 20" planer with a flat belt drive, 42" wide belt sander, a sticker, an 8 ft tall drill press, a double spindle 10 HP shaper, a Hol Zer 2 axis panel saw, etc... it's all very heavy iron and his shop is at grade level and he has a swing arm gantry lift to get stuff in and out. It's all run on a rotary phase converter for 3 phase operation. This ain't no home shop setup. FWIW, an 18" saw blade raised full up would really intimidate me, and I would want no part of it. I cut thick stock on the bandsaw which is much safer, no chance of kickback.

You have to get your shop machines based on the "on" time or durability, the weight you can manage, how mobile they need to be,
power requirements, foot print and other variables that pertain only to your situation. Asking a general question will result in a wide range of advice as you can already see.

Building furniture from rough sawn lumber is much different than making cabinets from sheet goods like plywood. Yes, a table saw is needed for both but the blades, table size, horse power, fence system and accessories will be much different. If you want to do both, then a little overkill is probably OK. A vertical panel saw will save space and your back for cutting sheet goods. I made my own for those reasons.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #10 of 24 Old 01-11-2019, 10:27 PM
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Think twice about the shaper. A router table is far more versatile and can do many things a shaper cannot. If you want to get a shaper because you want to get into mass production of doors then you need to budget for multiple shapers. One for coping cuts, one for stick cuts, and one for raised panels. Switching cutters and test cutting on a single shaper would not be conducive to production work.

Start with a router table. If you find that you only build cabinet doors a few times a year you’ll find one or two router tables will be able to do what you want. If you get a router table with a 3 1/4 hp motor you can use it for your raised panels if you later buy some shapers for the cope and stick cuts.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.
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post #11 of 24 Old 01-11-2019, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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I have a router setup and have done raised panels on it and have to make several passes to complete the shape. The cabinet shop I worked at growing up had a shaper and that's all it was for was to shape panels didn't get used often but nice when you needed it. Also all this equipment will be used 95% of the time for custom cabinets just to throw that out there.
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post #12 of 24 Old 01-12-2019, 04:35 AM
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Hammer K3 Winner

If I had a 5k budget for a table saw Id probably buy the Hammer K3. Their made in Austria and usually sell for around $5300 but Felder group has them on sale for around $4100 right now. It is a sliding table saw with a 4hp 230V motor and will take blades 10-12".
https://us.feldershop.com/index.php?...20ddbf72840e52

Mike
Everything i build comes with a redneck warranty. If it breaks you get to keep both pieces.
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post #13 of 24 Old 01-12-2019, 05:02 AM
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One negative drawback to more power in a table saw: when a kickback occurs while cutting a large, thick, heavy workpiece. Of course, that level of power may be required to cut it at all.
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post #14 of 24 Old 01-12-2019, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Agnostic View Post
One negative drawback to more power in a table saw: when a kickback occurs while cutting a large, thick, heavy workpiece. Of course, that level of power may be required to cut it at all.

On July 3 2017 I had a real bad kickback on my Unisaw, I right then thought about how much less damage would have possibly been done to the palm of my hand if I didn't have the 5 hp option on the saw LOL

There is no app for experience
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post #15 of 24 Old 01-12-2019, 04:45 PM
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How often would you be using your workshop? What types of materials are you going to be working with? I'd make sure I was running a 3hp router in my table before making the decision on the shaper. I still haven't found much router can't handle.

Table Saws, shapers, etc are cool and all but a $5,000 saw isn't going to dimension rough sawn lumber to start your project off right. I'm a big fan of buying used...spend that money on lumber and tooling instead. I don't buy into the sawstop movement. That company makes a saw that is great for schools or people who weren't taught how to properly keep their fingers attached while spinning blades are nearby. Just remember that every tool you own is plotting to kill you one day when you least expect it so don't get complacent.

In order of how often I use my major power tools:
Dust collector
Table saw
SCMS
Jointer
Planer
Band saw
Router table
Air compressor
Drum sander
Shaper
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post #16 of 24 Old 01-12-2019, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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Will be using workshop daily on my 2 weeks off so running pretty hard for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. Everything will be boarded and edged lumber. Nothing rough cut and will be a mix of hardwoods and plywood. My router is a 2.25hp and cannot handle one pass on a hardwood panel takes 3 passes to complete a raised panel. Will a 3hp router be able to complete a one pass panel on say an oak or hickory?
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post #17 of 24 Old 01-12-2019, 09:14 PM
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I don't think so ...

A one pass raised panel in Hickory is going to be tough and expect tearout. I've worked with Hickory a few times and I wonder why they don't pave the roads with it? That's how hard it is. Hickory plywood is OK to work with from my experience. I would think a shaper would have the power you are looking for as opposed to a AC/DC motor like a router of the same rated HP. Your Mission style panels can also be done on a table saw if it's just a flat bevel.


MORE:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+the+table+saw
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #18 of 24 Old 01-12-2019, 09:26 PM
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Will a 3hp router be able to complete a one pass panel on say an oak or hickory?
As WoodnThings has offered...that is a "no way" from me!!! That is too small a motor or saw to achieve panel raising in one pass...safely! But maybe I'm to conservative in that regard...I don't know?

The saw I use now, with a sharp blade, could care less what you put in it for such "single pass" work...

Hickorys, Maple, Oaks, Cherry and even Black Walnut and Elm...These large old saws do not care much or slows down too often even with deep cuts if speed is steady and matched to depth...
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post #19 of 24 Old 01-12-2019, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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We used to make hickory single pass raised panels in the shop I grew up working in but don't recall the HP rating of the motor but just a nice slow feed handled it no problem. That would be the sole reason for the purchase of a shaper. We did our stiles and rails on a basic router setup like I have already but the shaper was nice to be able to do the panels quickly.
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post #20 of 24 Old 01-13-2019, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
A one pass raised panel in Hickory is going to be tough and expect tearout. I've worked with Hickory a few times and I wonder why they don't pave the roads with it? That's how hard it is. Hickory plywood is OK to work with from my experience. I would think a shaper would have the power you are looking for as opposed to a AC/DC motor like a router of the same rated HP. Your Mission style panels can also be done on a table saw if it's just a flat bevel.
Panel Raising with a Table Saw - YouTube


MORE:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+the+table+saw

I have a Davis and Wells shaper with a 3 hp motor, I also have a Porter Cable 3 1/4 router. The shaper has a 1 1/4 spindle so i can use the big cutters, it will raise panels in one pass easily, hardly slows it down the PC won't, an induction motor just has a lot more torque than a universal motor, a lot more weight spinning

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