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post #21 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by IowaDave View Post
There probably is no single right answer to a question like this, but I can tell what I have done and I am happy with the approach that I have taken. I will not buy cheap tools, like the lowest quality store brand found in "big box" stores...but not every serviceable tool has to be ultra high end either.

I have chosen quality over price, and strongly prefer American made whenever possible, for over 30 years now and with just a few exceptions, I am using the same tools now that I bought 15, 20, 25+ years ago. My preference is to buy quality, even if I have to wait to save up the difference, and then treat them right. I am sure that 80% of my tools will still be in fine condition to pass along to my boys someday and I get much more enjoyment out of them now too.
Can't argue with that.

I'd just add I hate buying throw away junk. I read the reviews on some of the "power tools" that harbor freight sells and saw several examples of people that go back to the store 2-3 times to replace the tool they just bought to get one job done. I'm not going to do that. Plus, where do these "tools" come from? I have no interest in purchasing or supporting products made by slave labor in some third world country.

I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country. ~ William McKinley
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post #22 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
I don't know, I'm sitting here tonight struggling to type, my hand screwed up as a result of a safety device on a nail gun. It seems a huge majority of the accidents I have are a result of safety equipment.

I was using a framing nailer Saturday and because the safety had such a taunt spring on it it caused me to put my hand too close to ground zero and a nail turned out and got me on my knuckle. Had the safety not been there or at least a reasonable spring on it I could have had my hand back 6".

I feel your pain, brother, the palm of my hand is still sore as hell, but a knuckle damn that has to smart
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post #23 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
Can't argue with that.

I'd just add I hate buying throw away junk. I read the reviews on some of the "power tools" that harbor freight sells and saw several examples of people that go back to the store 2-3 times to replace the tool they just bought to get one job done. I'm not going to do that. Plus, where do these "tools" come from? I have no interest in purchasing or supporting products made by slave labor in some third world country.
Right on. ^^ Roughly a year ago I was in the market for an air powered staple gun, something that I now wished I had been smart enough to buy years earlier. :smile3: I was looking at the options in the store, a big box home center, and the sales help actually described one of the options as a "single use" model.

What? In looking at it more closely, it was very cheaply made and probably would have only lasted for one job...if that. The price was so low though relative to the other choices I suspect some people did go for that, but not for me. I want something that is going to work reliably and for a long time.
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post #24 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Catpower View Post
I feel your pain, brother, the palm of my hand is still sore as hell, but a knuckle damn that has to smart
44 years ago when I got my first woodworking job I managed to shoot myself with a staple gun. It was clearly my fault and I learned my lesson and didn't shoot myself anymore. In that day none of the guns I ever worked with had any kind of safety devices on them. Then they started putting safety equipment on the guns and make them in a manor difficult to disable so I've started shooting myself again till I figure out a way to disable the equipment. The Pasloade finish nailer I have I put most of a 1 1/2" nail in the end of my thumb when I mashed down on the safety and the gun slipped off the end of the board I was nailing, This Bostitch framing nailer that got me Saturday if you tie back the safety it will only fire one shot so I haven't figured out a way to fix that gun yet.
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post #25 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
Can't argue with that.

I'd just add I hate buying throw away junk. I read the reviews on some of the "power tools" that harbor freight sells and saw several examples of people that go back to the store 2-3 times to replace the tool they just bought to get one job done. I'm not going to do that. Plus, where do these "tools" come from? I have no interest in purchasing or supporting products made by slave labor in some third world country.
You have no personal experience with Harbor Freight tools, but you are ready to "bad mouth" them. Too many tool reputations (good and bad) are made by people who have no real experience with those tools.

And, " I have no interest in purchasing or supporting products made by slave labor in some third world country." How many tools are able to buy that are now made in the USofA? Is buying tools made in China OK with you? Where do they have to be made to satisfy you. How do you check the labor force where you like to see them made?

George
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post #26 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
You have no personal experience with Harbor Freight tools, but you are ready to "bad mouth" them. Too many tool reputations (good and bad) are made by people who have no real experience with those tools.

And, " I have no interest in purchasing or supporting products made by slave labor in some third world country." How many tools are able to buy that are now made in the USofA? Is buying tools made in China OK with you? Where do they have to be made to satisfy you. How do you check the labor force where you like to see them made?

George
This guy I know brought over a Harbor Freight "Dremel" tool that he just bought. He opened the box, plugged it in and turned it on. It sounded like the bearings were already done for. It was a piece of ****.

Is China OK with me? No I try to stick with US, Canada, Japan, and European countries.

I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country. ~ William McKinley
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post #27 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
One more comment about buying the best tool you can afford. You are starting out, you have decided you have $500 to spend on a table saw, what do you buy?

1. A used 10 year old bench top for $100 and keep the $400 for something else, probably towards a better saw in a couple months.

2. A new job site saw for $500, serviceable but has limitations.

3. A used contractors saw for $500, a tool that will be serviceable for several years, maybe forever, and worth upgrading the fence, etc, in the future.
The tool quality also has to match up nicely with the shop.
When I had plans to open a cabinet In the late '70's, I purchased a used 1953 model Darra James table saw with deluxe length rails. A sweet piece. Capable of cutting a full sheet of plywood at 48" with the fence capacity.
When I accepted another job, this Saw was just too big for my garage. I loved the saw but sold it to another cabinet man.
Since my shop remains a garage shop, I've never purchased another large cabinet Saw. I've built a lot of projects on a Delta contractor's saw. Are there better saws? Yes and I've owned one.
For those that say "go big or go home" , I say I am going home. That's where my shop is.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #28 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
Can't argue with that.

I'd just add I hate buying throw away junk. I read the reviews on some of the "power tools" that harbor freight sells and saw several examples of people that go back to the store 2-3 times to replace the tool they just bought to get one job done. I'm not going to do that. Plus, where do these "tools" come from? I have no interest in purchasing or supporting products made by slave labor in some third world country.
I hear you loud and clear.
After doing woodwork for many years, I think many can look at hand tools and decide if it looks to be of good quality or not. I know looks can be deceiving but an experienced woodworker has a pretty good eye to make a judgement call.
H. F. has some tools I've bought and will buy again if ever needed. Do I like everything they sell? No. So that pretty much positions them with a lot of other places that sell tools.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #29 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
The tool quality also has to match up nicely with the shop.
When I had plans to open a cabinet In the late '70's, I purchased a used 1953 model Darra James table saw with deluxe length rails. A sweet piece. Capable of cutting a full sheet of plywood at 48" with the fence capacity.
When I accepted another job, this Saw was just too big for my garage. I loved the saw but sold it to another cabinet man.
Since my shop remains a garage shop, I've never purchased another large cabinet Saw. I've built a lot of projects on a Delta contractor's saw. Are there better saws? Yes and I've owned one.
For those that say "go big or go home" , I say I am going home. That's where my shop is.
Valid point. But you can also have a wonderful saw in a small shop. After 30 years with it I replaced my Delta contractors saw with a used C3-31 in my garage shop and the productivity, precision, pleasure, and capability greatly increased;with less noise, less dust, and no detectable vibration. For me it was worth every bit of the $5,000 it cost.
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post #30 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian(J) View Post
Valid point. But you can also have a wonderful saw in a small shop. After 30 years with it I replaced my Delta contractors saw with a used C3-31 in my garage shop and the productivity, precision, pleasure, and capability greatly increased;with less noise, less dust, and no detectable vibration. For me it was worth every bit of the $5,000 it cost.
Who makes the C3-31?
I'm not familiar with it.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #31 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 08:46 PM
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Who makes the C3-31?
I'm not familiar with it.
Felder/Hammer in Austria. 12" joiner/12" thicknesser/ 12" sliding ts. Perfect for some small shops.
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post #32 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 09:23 PM
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I buy what works and improves my production timing. It's not hard in this business to pay for a better tool or machine to improve production.Every year a new ideal hits the market..

Now I'm almost 52 and production will be as it is because I don't need to upgrade tooling that works and I'm not fueling my tool auction for the future.
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post #33 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian(J) View Post
Felder/Hammer in Austria. 12" joiner/12" thicknesser/ 12" sliding ts. Perfect for some small shops.
Ahhh, a 3 in 1 tool. I'll look it up on Google.
I have all stand alone machines now. Ive never paid that much $$ for a tool.
My tools were purchased 80% new and 20% used. Many different brands.
Now some of the tools I purchased new are over 40 years old.
Some of the used tools I've purchased were over 40 years old when I purchased them. Not all of them of course but I do have a few oldies.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #34 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 10:10 PM
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I assume all 3-1 tools use the same motor to operate the 3 tools correct?
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post #35 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 10:20 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Nope...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelwork View Post
I assume all 3-1 tools use the same motor to operate the 3 tools correct?
Not possible because some arbors are 90 degrees to each other, like the shaper. This one has 3 motors, but is a 5 tool combo:
http://rojekusa.com/PHP/kps400.php



http://www.felder-canada.ca/ca-us/pr...er-kf-500.html


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 07-10-2017 at 10:28 PM.
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post #36 of 53 Old 07-10-2017, 10:23 PM
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So if one tool breaks, this doesn't affect the other 2?
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post #37 of 53 Old 07-11-2017, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian(J) View Post
Valid point. But you can also have a wonderful saw in a small shop. After 30 years with it I replaced my Delta contractors saw with a used C3-31 in my garage shop and the productivity, precision, pleasure, and capability greatly increased;with less noise, less dust, and no detectable vibration. For me it was worth every bit of the $5,000 it cost.
Brian,
I looked up the C3-31 and it looks like a very high quality machine. I don't own anything close to it. All my machines cost well under $1,000. And the only thing I have running on 220 is my Ac/heat window unit I installed last year.
You're lucky to have such a machine. I'm sure it's a pleasure to operate.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #38 of 53 Old 07-11-2017, 09:57 PM
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IMO, there are two parts of this discussion. First is the individual $ budget, and the second is the knowledge/experience of that individual to understand and use the item(s) in a proper and safe manner. Each of us has to decide what is best for our needs. Be safe.
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post #39 of 53 Old 07-11-2017, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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I assume all 3-1 tools use the same motor to operate the 3 tools correct?
The tool discussed has three 220 motors. It's a hoss.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #40 of 53 Old 07-11-2017, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by woodchux View Post
IMO, there are two parts of this discussion. First is the individual $ budget, and the second is the knowledge/experience of that individual to understand and use the item(s) in a proper and safe manner. Each of us has to decide what is best for our needs. Be safe.
And you can be super safe in a dream shop and still not produce a grade "A" project because of a lacking in design and construction expertise.
I've seen some outstanding pieces made on so-so machines with no guards in site.
The Craftsmen learned to use the equipment without the safeguards and after years of work could make outstanding furniture pieces.
With today's liability issues, unsafe practices are now more limited to the one man or very small shops.
We've had several reports of new accidents this week, some very serious.
Safeguards are put in place to help us. But when the safeguard contributes to the accident (as what happened with Steve) it makes the guard a hard sell for sure.
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If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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