Some Basics of Buying a Saw - Special Bonus to the Table Saw Classifications Thread - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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Some Basics of Buying a Saw - Special Bonus to the Table Saw Classifications Thread

(Note - The limitations of 10,000 characters have required that I break this article into 4 segments. It's advisable that you read the 3 sections on Table Saw Classifications before reading this section)
Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

Some Basics of Buying a Saw -
For performance and stability, large and heavy is good, operating room and support is good, strong and powerful are good. From that perspective, in most applications metal is preferred to plastic, cast iron is preferred to steel, steel is preferred to aluminum, aluminum is preferred to plastic, stronger plastics are preferred to more brittle plastics, etc. It’s subjective to some degree, but you get the gist of the strength of materials game.

When you approach a table saw in a store, try to imagine whether or not the saw would be stable when you push a piece of heavier material across the blade. Is there enough operating room in front of the blade for you to get the workpiece settled before it contacts the blade? Push a little on the front of the saw…if it moves easily, it’ll move when your cutting if you don’t take precautions to anchor it down. It’s hard to know how powerful a saw will feel when cutting until you’ve used it… there’s a lot more to how easily a saw cuts than it’s horsepower rating, but if the blade isn’t cutting efficiently while your pushing the matieral, it’ll ultimately translate to pushing on the saw, so it has to be stable. Blade selection and alignment are key factors in how easily and accurately any saw cuts.

Horsepower ratings can be misleading or vague, but you can at least check the stated nominal amperage on the motor plate, manual, specs, or elsewhere on the saw. “Amp” draw is an indication of how much power it’ll draw from the electrical circuit, and is a better indicator of how much power it’ll produce during operation than HP ratings….it’s not an ideal rating system, just better…especially with univesal motors. If you’re unfamiliar with the difference between a universal motor and an induction motor, think in terms of a running circular saw vs a ceiling fan…circular saws have universal motors, while fans have induction motors…quiet is usually good too!. There are many other variables involved with the saw’s perceived power, but that at least gives you a leg up on whatever wishful number the marketing wizzards have printed on the front of the saw. If it plugs into a standard 120v outlet, it’s not mathematically feasible for the circuit to safely supply enough amperage for the motor to produce more than 2hp for long enough to matter. Any motor that’s larger than a true 2hp is best run on a 240v (aka 220v) circuit.

Since alignment is critical to good performance, the ability to adjust the blade to the miter slots, and the fence to the blade are also good. The fence is a critical part of the cutting operation during rip cuts, check it out thoroughly….it should have easy adjustments for horizontal and vertical alignment, and should clamp down firmly on the fence rail, or should at least have adjustments for the clamping pressure. If it sticks a little on the rail, don’t worry… a little wax in the right location should help it gliding nicely (never wax or lubricate where the fence clamps against the rail though). Stock miter gauges are notoriously poor, but are easier to compensate for than a bad fence with an aftermarket miter gauge or crosscut sled. Check to see if the miter slots are a standard 3/4” width. If not, then you’re on your own for accessories that fit the miter slot. Keep in mind that most store displays are horribly adjusted and poorly setup. Don’t misjudge the saw because of the setup…if it’s too loose or too tight, that can usually be rectified with proper setup.

You’ll also discover that some saws have table mounted trunnions, some cabinet mounted. Cabinet mounted trunnions, like those on cabinet saws, are easier to reach and easier to align. Table mounted trunnions can be more tedious, but it’s usually a one time deal and is doable, so I don't believe it's a "make or break" feature....just one of many important decision factors.

Belt Drive or Direct Drive?
In two words...belt drive! The vast majority of top shelf saws are belt drive with an induction motor. The vast majority of cheap plastic benchtop saws have direct drive universal motors. Belt drive simply gives smoother operation with less vibration than direct drive. There's also less chance of frying the motor should you stall the blade on a belt drive saw, as the belt with generally slip a bit as opposed to melting the motor coils. (I'll bet all the old school audiophiles were familiar with the belt drive concept on turntables!)

The Great Debate – Right Tilt or Left Tilt?
Virtually all modern table saws have the ability to tilt the blade for bevel cuts. Some tilt towards the right, some tilt towards the left. There are pros and cons to both which many feel are minor concerns, and it really boils down to a matter of preference. Right tilt bevels toward the fence on a standard bevel cut, which is considered less safe than if it beveled away from the fence. You can move the fence to the left of the blade for safer bevel cuts, but that makes it a non-standard operation, which is still not quite as safe as a bevel cut on a left tilt saw. On Left tilt saws the blade bevels away from the fence with the fence on the right of the blade (standard location), which is considered safer.

The downside of a left tilt saw is that any changes in blade thickness will skew the zero reference on the tape measure because the left side of the blade registers on the right side of the flange. This can be adjusted by recalibrating the cursor each time, always using blades of the same thickness, using shims/spacers, or just measuring by hand. Blade thickness changes make no difference with a right tilt saw because the right side of the blade registers against the left side of the flange, so changes in blade thickness don’t impact the tape measure.

Here’s another difference that will also be a matter of preference. The arbor nut on a right tilt saw gets applied from the left side of the blade and uses a reverse thread orientation, which is typically done with your left hand. The arbor nut on a left tilt saw goes on from the right side (easy for right handers) and uses a normal thread orientation.

What to Buy?
Which saw to get is a personal decision that we all face, but I'd focus more on saw type than brand. Each of us has different criteria for a saw, so make your decision based on your situation. Price is often a big consideration, as is size. The old adage, “buy the best saw you can afford” rings true. If space and price allows, a bigger saw would be my recommendation….more power, more capacity, and more stability is seldom a bad thing. The performance advantages of the larger full size saws are hard to argue, but many of the better portable jobsite saws and some of the compact saws are capable of producing accurate cuts. If a smaller saw is all there’s room for, or if you need to move the saw from location to location, a larger saw may simply be unfeasible.

If budget is the limiting factor, look to a good used saw….Craigslist, Ebay, and the used classifieds on woodworking sites can often yield an excellent saw for a reasonable cost. Older full size contractor saws are plentiful in the used market….it’s very common to see a used Ridgid or Craftsman contractor saw in the $100-$200 that could be ready to go with a new blade and very little effort. The fences on the old Craftsman saws were pretty suspect, but fence upgrades can be added at a later time as funds allow. Thanks to the wonders of the SawStop flesh sensing technology, there are many excellent full size saws available due to people upgrading to the new technology. This is a great time to find a good used industrial cabinet saw at a good price….just beware that you’ll need 240v operation if the motor is more than 2hp.

New full size saws tend to start just north of $500. Sale prices and coupons can drop the price further. I’ve read of several cases where a store has honored a Harbor Freight 20% competitor’s coupon, which can bring entry level full size saws like the Ridgid R4512 or Craftsman 21833 down in the $425-$450 range. If you’ve got 240v, you just might find a great deal on a used cabinet saw for within that same budget. You’ll have to decide if you’d rather have a new saw with warranty and modern features like a riving knife, or if you’d rather buy more beef under the hood. New cabinet saws tend to start near $1300…ie: a new Grizzly G1023RL 3hp cabinet saw is currently $1394 shipped, and enjoys a very solid reputation…..that’s pretty close in price to several of the better hybrid saws, and offers much more substantial construction. Regardless which type you end up, the end performance is largely determined by proper setup and good blade selection, so take your time with the alignment and setup, and buy a quality blade. Good blades tend to start right around $30….if that’s all that’s in your blade budget, I’d buy one decent general purpose blade as opposed to a two-pack of cheaper blades, but it really depends on what you plan to do.

see riving knife/splitter info at the end of Part 3
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Last edited by knotscott; 08-07-2013 at 05:59 AM.
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post #2 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 03:11 AM
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All I can say is WOW nice write ups. He'll I didn't even know nor did I worry about a 10,000 character limit.

Thanks for the work.
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post #3 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 05:49 AM
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Thanks for all your effort scott!

That about covers it. It's funny, when I look back I have or used to have one of each type of saws...portable universal motor, contractor belt drive, hybrid with flat belt drive, direct drive induction motor and cabinet saw with 3HP triple belt drive. I've come to the conclusion that the fence is the heart of the table saw, assuming the motor will power the blade. You use the fence constantly and there's nothing worse than a fence that won't square itself to the miter slot when lock down...JMO. Thanks again! bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #4 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 09:56 AM
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Like a magazine article for free. Nice writeup. Move this permanently to the top of the power tool section so people with questions can read first ask second.
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post #5 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 10:07 AM
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I second the motion to make this a permanent "sticky" at the top. These four parts shouldn't get lost in the shuffle. Thanks knotscott, this is exactly what every table saw questioner needs. Not needing a new saw, I wasn't actually ever sure what "hybrid" completely referred to. Thanks, I learned something!
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post #6 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 10:11 AM
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Excellent set of articles. Terrific to have the picture to go with the narrative.

Now we just need people, especially new forum members to search before asking the same old questions.

Do you think it worthwhile to add a section about riving knife vs splitter? I did not see this mentioned.

Few options to add a riving knife, perhaps BORK.

I found out about the 10,000 character limit accidentally, when I pasted in a graphic, and tried to preview. I got an error about exceeding 10,000 characters.
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post #7 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 10:22 AM
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I made this a sticky as well as the TS classification threads.
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post #8 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Paine View Post
...
Do you think it worthwhile to add a section about riving knife vs splitter? I did not see this mentioned.

Few options to add a riving knife, perhaps BORK.

....
Definitely worthwhile to do a segment about RK vs splitter. I'm surprised it didn't occur to me at some point! Will add it soon....probably to the bonus section about buying basics. Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. Making it a sticky should save some typing down the road!

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post #9 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 03:12 PM
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Great series Scott. Again, thanks for the contribution.
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post #10 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 06:25 PM
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Nice writeup!!!

RRBrown, knottscott and many others were banned, they didn't just leave. They were banned for standing up to the new owners that are destroying this site. Come join us all at woodworking chat, the best new woodworking site on the net!!
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post #11 of 24 Old 10-02-2012, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knotscott View Post
The Great Debate – Right Tilt or Left Tilt?
Virtually all modern table saws have the ability to tilt the blade for bevel cuts. Some tilt towards the right, some tilt towards the left. There are pros and cons to both which many feel are minor concerns, and it really boils down to a matter of preference. Right tilt bevels toward the fence on a standard bevel cut, which is considered less safe than if it beveled away from the fence. You can move the fence to the left of the blade for safer bevel cuts, but that makes it a non-standard operation, which is still not quite as safe as a bevel cut on a left tilt saw. On Left tilt saws the blade bevels away from the fence with the fence on the right of the blade (standard location), which is considered safer.
Using a table saw with the fence on the left side of the blade is common to some southpaws. It feels just as natural that way as a right hander using the fence on the right side of the blade. I mentored a cabinetmaker that had a RT Unisaw with a 50" Biesemeyer to the left of the blade. I'll tell you that it sure looked weird.





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post #12 of 24 Old 05-11-2013, 08:44 PM
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A Safety Question:

On the old craftsman and other table saws, is it easy to add safety equipment such as blade guard, splitter, pawls, etc?

I see a lot of them on Craigslist for under $150 but it looks like they either 1) are missing those safety pieces, or 2) never had them to begin with.

Studies have shown that having a ladder in the home is more dangerous than having a firearm. That's why I own 10 guns... in case some maniac tries to sneak a ladder into my house...
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-15-2013, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunkle Stan View Post
A Safety Question:

On the old craftsman and other table saws, is it easy to add safety equipment such as blade guard, splitter, pawls, etc?

I see a lot of them on Craigslist for under $150 but it looks like they either 1) are missing those safety pieces, or 2) never had them to begin with.
It's fairly easy to find splitters from old Cman and Ridgid saws that are pretty much interchangeable. The more common the saw, the easier it is to find parts.
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post #14 of 24 Old 11-08-2014, 08:28 AM
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Very nice. keep it up knockscott ...
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-02-2015, 07:50 PM
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Well done article. I didn't know you could buy a good blade for $30. Something impossible to cover in an article like this is quality. Trying to justify a higher priced "better" saw is probably more related to experience with the entire range than anything else. A higher price only hurts once, a cheap saw keeps reminding you. My shop is equipped with everything from a 10" SawStop to a CNC beam saw. Each has it's place/function.
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post #16 of 24 Old 01-18-2016, 10:17 AM
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Nice Writer

Very thorough, and informative
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post #17 of 24 Old 06-12-2017, 05:39 AM
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Good information, and very nice explained in a easy way to understand!

Chop your own wood, and it will warm you twice.
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post #18 of 24 Old 06-12-2017, 07:23 AM
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Very informative, but isn't it a bit old?
date looks like 2012..
anyways, what do you think about getting a table saw from Amazon rather than the original manufacturers?
Many table saws reviews (like this http://www.sawinery.net/best-table-saw/) are using Amazon, what are the pros and cons?
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post #19 of 24 Old 06-12-2017, 11:51 AM
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I really know better ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
That about covers it. It's funny, when I look back I have or used to have one of each type of saws...portable universal motor, contractor belt drive, hybrid with flat belt drive, direct drive induction motor and cabinet saw with 3HP triple belt drive. I've come to the conclusion that the fence is the heart of the table saw, assuming the motor will power the blade. You use the fence constantly and there's nothing worse than a fence that won't square itself to the miter slot when lock down...JMO. Thanks again! bill
That is so wrong! The fence must lock down parallel to the miter slot, not "square" or 90 degrees, to it. DUH.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #20 of 24 Old 06-13-2017, 09:25 AM
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Great TS info for those who have established their "shop", AND for those at the beginning of their WW adventures. Thanks for sharing, and be safe.
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