Smallest motorized saw for straight cuts? - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 52 Old 02-04-2017, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
A blade with fewer teeth will cut faster and rougher. (Takes out bigger bites)
More teeth on a blade will cut slower but smoother. (Takes out smaller bites)
Blades are either high speed steel or carbide tipped. Carbide last much longer but is more expensive. Most name brand blades have packaging that tells you the features of the blade. Look for key words like Plywood, Fine Cut or Finish if you want to cut plywoods clean and smooth.
Expensive blades can be re-sharpened when necessary. Cheap blades aren't worth the cost of re-sharpening and will be discarded.
I hope this helps.
Thanks, I'll check on amazon's product page what type of blade it comes with.
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post #22 of 52 Old 02-05-2017, 02:52 AM
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You will want to have a spare blade, and given your supply chain you could do worse than a red Diablo blade. Then you could compare that to the supplied blade and get a feel for the difference. Sometimes Amazon says they are made in China but mine come engraved Made in Italy and they are surprisingly good. I'd get one with as close to 40 teeth as possible, and take my time making the cut.
If only you could check out those saws, one thing the reviews will miss is the blade to base rigidity, some saws allow a fair amount of wiggle which does nothing good for the cut and most of the reviewers won't look for that.
Those smaller saws that take the 4 3/8" and similar blades spin extra fast, cut like demons and often make a better smoother cut. Also 1/2 the dust as the blade is a lot thinner. I actually have one installed on the scoring blade arbor of my 12" table saw, I drop the 9" blade I keep on the main arbor and raise the 4 3/8" blade when I'm working with small stock- really a nice blade to work with.

Pretty soon you will want to make those boxes and you might consider a KREG pocket hole jig to screw all that MDF together.
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post #23 of 52 Old 02-05-2017, 05:01 AM
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Keep in mind that you may require a power adapter or even completely rewiring if you purchase any power tools or any other electrical device from another country.
It would not be a whole lot of fun to spend a few hundred dollars only to find out you have no way to get power to the motor. You might even burn your home down.. That would be ever less fun unless you're a pyromaniac..

I figured it's time to change my signature so hold your breath. This is it.
Impressive, huh?
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post #24 of 52 Old 02-05-2017, 05:26 AM
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Makita makes a small 12v trim saw, I think the blade is like 3 3/8. We bought it for some finish work and so far haven't had much use for it. Underpowered. But it cuts clean and precise in tight corners and is light and easy to operate. It's basically just a miniature circ saw. Use it with a straight edge and I bet it would work great for hobby work/small projects.

Another tool to consider is an oscillating multi tool. Because they oscillate it takes some getting used, but once you get the technique down they can be very useful and versatile tools. I have actually even cut tenons with them.

But if table saws are off the table, and you can only have one "handheld saw", I would say jigsaw. You can cut just about anything with a jigsaw, curves, with an edge guide you can cut nice straight cuts, and of course for projects like speaker box cutouts you're able to do your internal cuts. Probably the best tool for the kinds of projects you are doing other than maybe a plunge counter with a spiral upcut bit.
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post #25 of 52 Old 02-05-2017, 07:04 AM
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Title says .....

Smallest saw for straight cuts is the title of the thread.

Circular saws make straight cuts best because of the amount of blade making the cut that is into the material, usually around 3" to 6" depending on the diameter. When using a straight edge guide, a circular saw will make very straight cuts.

Jigsaws make curved cuts best because the width of the cutting blade is usually from 1/4" to 1/2" which allows it to turn easily in the cut. Since the blade is narrower than a circular saw, it will not make as straight of a cut. This is also because the reciprocating mechanism is not very precise and has some slop, especially in the cheaper saws, even when using a guide.

Multi-tools make flush and plunge cuts best because you can use an offset blade. The blades have very fine teeth and will cut wood, but quite slowly. They are good for pocket cuts since you can start any place on the surface and plunge the tool into the work.


You have already ordered the saw, so wait and see how the blade works that comes with it before you buy a different one. Save your $$ for now. If the original blade tears the MDF and leaves a rough cut, look to see how many teeth are on the blade. Less than 40 teeth, which is fine, means the blade will make a rough cut. More than 40 teeth like 60, means the blade will make a smooth cut, but just not as fast.... no big deal in your case, actually better!

MDF has a lot of binder or glue in the material and is "harder" than just raw lumber. The blades may wear out more rapidly, but again no big deal, since it will take a long time before they get so dull you can't use them. A clean blade will give you the best results and won't leave burn makes, so look at the cut to see what going on.
You can clean a sawblade using a household cleaner, Simple Green, 409, etc...just let it soak overnight then brush it off with a plastic or brass brush. Reinstall it correctly! Do not put it back on "backwards" and wonder why it won't cut like before.

Often if not always, the nut that holds the blade on is a "reversed" thread, so beware of that when trying to remove the blade. Check the manual to see which direction to turn the nut AND see if the saw has an "arbor lock" a small button you press down to keep the arbor from turning while you remove the blade.
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Last edited by woodnthings; 02-05-2017 at 07:07 AM.
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post #26 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian(J) View Post
You will want to have a spare blade, and given your supply chain you could do worse than a red Diablo blade. Then you could compare that to the supplied blade and get a feel for the difference. Sometimes Amazon says they are made in China but mine come engraved Made in Italy and they are surprisingly good. I'd get one with as close to 40 teeth as possible, and take my time making the cut.
If only you could check out those saws, one thing the reviews will miss is the blade to base rigidity, some saws allow a fair amount of wiggle which does nothing good for the cut and most of the reviewers won't look for that.
Those smaller saws that take the 4 3/8" and similar blades spin extra fast, cut like demons and often make a better smoother cut. Also 1/2 the dust as the blade is a lot thinner. I actually have one installed on the scoring blade arbor of my 12" table saw, I drop the 9" blade I keep on the main arbor and raise the 4 3/8" blade when I'm working with small stock- really a nice blade to work with.

Pretty soon you will want to make those boxes and you might consider a KREG pocket hole jig to screw all that MDF together.
The Diablo line of blades is disproportionately expensive on Amazon UK. In fact, most blades on Amazon UK aren't Amazon Global Eligible (meaning you can't order them outside the UK).
I found this compact saw, it ships to my country. Will its small plate work with a Kreg Rip-Cut, though?
A Kreg Pocket Jig is something I wanted to buy for my previous project (that I eventually let a carpenter build due to lack of tools), but it turned out to be around $100 with shipping and everything. I see it's 31 GBP on Amazon UK right now, which is nice but still rather stretches the budget. Do I really need one? Is it a replacement for clamps? Because I already ordered strap clamps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by allpurpose View Post
Keep in mind that you may require a power adapter or even completely rewiring if you purchase any power tools or any other electrical device from another country.
It would not be a whole lot of fun to spend a few hundred dollars only to find out you have no way to get power to the motor. You might even burn your home down.. That would be ever less fun unless you're a pyromaniac..
That won't be an issue, they use the same voltage in the UK as we do here in Israel. I've bought electric appliances from Amazon UK before, all I needed is a $5 adapter for the plug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Smallest saw for straight cuts is the title of the thread.

Circular saws make straight cuts best because of the amount of blade making the cut that is into the material, usually around 3" to 6" depending on the diameter. When using a straight edge guide, a circular saw will make very straight cuts.

Jigsaws make curved cuts best because the width of the cutting blade is usually from 1/4" to 1/2" which allows it to turn easily in the cut. Since the blade is narrower than a circular saw, it will not make as straight of a cut. This is also because the reciprocating mechanism is not very precise and has some slop, especially in the cheaper saws, even when using a guide.

Multi-tools make flush and plunge cuts best because you can use an offset blade. The blades have very fine teeth and will cut wood, but quite slowly. They are good for pocket cuts since you can start any place on the surface and plunge the tool into the work.


You have already ordered the saw, so wait and see how the blade works that comes with it before you buy a different one. Save your $$ for now. If the original blade tears the MDF and leaves a rough cut, look to see how many teeth are on the blade. Less than 40 teeth, which is fine, means the blade will make a rough cut. More than 40 teeth like 60, means the blade will make a smooth cut, but just not as fast.... no big deal in your case, actually better!

MDF has a lot of binder or glue in the material and is "harder" than just raw lumber. The blades may wear out more rapidly, but again no big deal, since it will take a long time before they get so dull you can't use them. A clean blade will give you the best results and won't leave burn makes, so look at the cut to see what going on.
You can clean a sawblade using a household cleaner, Simple Green, 409, etc...just let it soak overnight then brush it off with a plastic or brass brush. Reinstall it correctly! Do not put it back on "backwards" and wonder why it won't cut like before.

Often if not always, the nut that holds the blade on is a "reversed" thread, so beware of that when trying to remove the blade. Check the manual to see which direction to turn the nut AND see if the saw has an "arbor lock" a small button you press down to keep the arbor from turning while you remove the blade.

Oscillating saws look really neat. Can't afford another tool now, though. Will have to use a jigsaw for these cuts.
I haven't ordered a saw yet, by the way. I will make sure to mate it with a 60T blade, though. Or at least 40, if it's all I can afford.

Also, in my search for a decent circular saw, I "discovered" the Track Saw (Plunge Saw) tool. It seems to negate the need for a guide such as the Kreg Rip-Cut.
They are more expensive though, so I was wondering if I should pick up this one, which is the only track/plunge saw I can afford, or instead opt for an entry level Bosch/Makita/Whatever circular saw plus a Kreg Rip-Cut. Thoughts?

Edit: So I think I made up my mind on a cheap c.saw + a quality blade + a Kreg Rip-Cut.
The reason for going with a cheap saw is so that I could buy a good blade. The reason for opting for the Kreg Rip Cut and not the aforementioned track saw is that, with the track saw, I'll need to mark lines on the wood and basically rely on my eyes to do it perfectly parallel to the board. The guide will do a straight cut, but I'll still have to place it perfectly parallel to the board. Not so with the Kreg, where it can only be used perpendicular to the board, AND you use its own ruler. It's almost like a table saw fence. The reviews of it are great and I've read that some people in the DIY audio community use this tool themselves and are getting flush joints, so I just kinda need
to know that generic/budget saws with a great blade are not a bad idea. Are they?

Last edited by Yonathan; 02-06-2017 at 03:10 PM.
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post #27 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 03:02 PM
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Pass on the Builder model

It only comes with a one meter long track. The Sheppach comes with 2- 700 cm long tracks and is a well known brand with a good blade.
However, it runs on 240 Volts and that may be an issue?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scheppach-P...2MD7KRMZPBKD78

You will need 2 tracks for your projects, since standard sizes for plywood in USA is 96" X 48" .I donno about UK standard sizes?

You may consider returning the other saw and get this Triton, a well regarded brand and a 1500 cm long track for $207 lbs.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Power-Saw...SAERK4EFMRMDFP

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #28 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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Why won't 1 meter be long enough? I could buy sheets as small as 1 by 1 meter. I'll probably never make a speaker that's more than 1 meter in length. :D

By the way, that BUILDERS saw uses the same rail as Makita and Triton (the entire system is basically a rip-off of the Triton) and other brands, so I could buy one those guides to extend it over 1 meter. The Sheppach is 60% over my budget and doesn't even ship to Israel. The Triton is twice my budget...

I still don't understand how I'd be able to make perfectly parallel/perpendicular cuts in relation to the board. Am I missing something? Because track saws seem to be regarded as the best for straight cuts.

Edit: Really sorry about this, but another option has come up: a Worx WX572. It's basically the Rockwell BladeRunner X2 under a different name. I found a used one, about $170 (very good considering prices in my country), but I can probably lower it to $140 or so. The good: no need for a guide, a new blade (I think, and if not then a jigsaw blade should be cheaper at least), no need for saw horses or any "setup". The bad: you tell me, please.

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post #29 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 05:51 PM
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Why won't 1 meter be long enough? I could buy sheets as small as 1 by 1 meter. I'll probably never make a speaker that's more than 1 meter in length. :D

By the way, that BUILDERS saw uses the same rail as Makita and Triton (the entire system is basically a rip-off of the Triton) and other brands, so I could buy one those guides to extend it over 1 meter. The Sheppach is 60% over my budget and doesn't even ship to Israel. The Triton is twice my budget...

I still don't understand how I'd be able to make perfectly parallel/perpendicular cuts in relation to the board. Am I missing something? Because track saws seem to be regarded as the best for straight cuts.

Edit: Really sorry about this, but another option has come up: a Worx WX572. It's basically the Rockwell BladeRunner X2 under a different name. I found a used one, about $170 (very good considering prices in my country), but I can probably lower it to $140 or so. The good: no need for a guide, a new blade (I think, and if not then a jigsaw blade should be cheaper at least), no need for saw horses or any "setup". The bad: you tell me, please.
Yonathan,
First, Kreg Jig, replaces the clamps and then holds the box together. MDF is hard to glue together so I would use screws. I'm sorry they are so expensive, I wouldn't pay that much for them either. What about ebay?

The 4.25 inch Diablo blade I use is $15 usd. http://************/hnhyufg A small saw that this fits into will build the boxes you describe, faster and with a smoother cut line than the larger saws you are looking at, but wouldn't be up to some larger project down the line.

The Rip-Cut uses the factory edge of the sheet as a guide, as soon as you lose that you're in trouble. And if are not careful you let the guide move away from the edge as you slide it along and ruin the cut. The track saw, and many of us have them, is a fantastic tool for making straight cuts in any direction and doesn't require an edge to guide against. It is by far the easiest tool to operate that you have suggested and will produce the best results (all this is my opinion of course).

The upside-down jigsaw things you are looking at- in theory this is a good tool, if quite slow, for what you intend however I see from the reviews it's not very accurate and might have quite a time cutting 3/4" MDF. http://************/jtgpxty

Please consider: You are talking to a lot of experienced woodworkers. Without a table saw the first choice of most for your project would be a track saw.

Good Luck!
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post #30 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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Yonathan,
First, Kreg Jig, replaces the clamps and then holds the box together. MDF is hard to glue together so I would use screws. I'm sorry they are so expensive, I wouldn't pay that much for them either. What about ebay?

The 4.25 inch Diablo blade I use is $15 usd. http://************/hnhyufg A small saw that this fits into will build the boxes you describe, faster and with a smoother cut line than the larger saws you are looking at, but wouldn't be up to some larger project down the line.

The Rip-Cut uses the factory edge of the sheet as a guide, as soon as you lose that you're in trouble. And if are not careful you let the guide move away from the edge as you slide it along and ruin the cut. The track saw, and many of us have them, is a fantastic tool for making straight cuts in any direction and doesn't require an edge to guide against. It is by far the easiest tool to operate that you have suggested and will produce the best results (all this is my opinion of course).

The upside-down jigsaw things you are looking at- in theory this is a good tool, if quite slow, for what you intend however I see from the reviews it's not very accurate and might have quite a time cutting 3/4" MDF. http://************/jtgpxty

Please consider: You are talking to a lot of experienced woodworkers. Without a table saw the first choice of most for your project would be a track saw.

Good Luck!
Ah well, track saw it is then. The clamps I bought are 8 GBP dollars each, so I ordered 4. 32 GBP overall. I can add the Kreg Pocket for 30 GBP to my amazon UK and shipping cost won't be affected much, so a similar cost overall. But I need to know for sure - does it completely replace clamps? What if I make a box which is closed, I won't have access to the screws for the top part, correct?

Thanks again.
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post #31 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 06:22 PM
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Ah well, track saw it is then. The clamps I bought are 8 GBP dollars each, so I ordered 4. 32 GBP overall. I can add the Kreg Pocket for 30 GBP to my amazon UK and shipping cost won't be affected much, so a similar cost overall. But I need to know for sure - does it completely replace clamps? What if I make a box which is closed, I won't have access to the screws for the top part, correct?

Thanks again.
The Kreg jig works best when the part are clamped into place and can't 'walk around' when the screws are going in. I would put the top down, screw the sides to the top, screw the sides together from inside if the box is large enough, and screw the bottom to the sides last with the screws in the bottom face, so no screws showing. I would probably think of a better way in a little while but offhand that's it.
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post #32 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Ah well, track saw it is then. The clamps I bought are 8 GBP dollars each, so I ordered 4. 32 GBP overall. I can add the Kreg Pocket for 30 GBP to my amazon UK and shipping cost won't be affected much, so a similar cost overall. But I need to know for sure - does it completely replace clamps? What if I make a box which is closed, I won't have access to the screws for the top part, correct?

Thanks again.
The Kreg jig works best when the part are clamped into place and can't 'walk around' when the screws are going in. I would put the top down, screw the sides to the top, screw the sides together from inside if the box is large enough, and screw the bottom to the sides last with the screws in the bottom face, so no screws showing. I would probably think of a better way in a little while but offhand that's it.
There's no room for that inside a typical speaker box. I think clamps are the way to go. Glue is essential for an airtight seal, by the way. Screws alone will not do that with anything but a perfect cut.
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post #33 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 06:52 PM
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I may have missed the boat but The Scheppach track saw comes with two short tracks (about 25 inches or thereabouts). My saw runs on 120v.

Also, it is the same saw as sold by Grizzly Industrial Tools. I bought two of the longer tracks so now I can rip up to ten feet in length easy.
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post #34 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 06:57 PM
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There's no room for that inside a typical speaker box.
I beg your pardon!

Glue and screws used for this assembly. It took a little creative thinking, but I got it put together.
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post #35 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 07:07 PM
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Good pictures, but what am I looking at?
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If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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MT
Good pictures, but what am I looking at?
Ha ha, I don't want to hijack this guys thread but this is the height adjustment part of my adjustable height work table!
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post #37 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 10:40 PM
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I donno.....

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Ha ha, I don't want to hijack this guys thread but this is the height adjustment part of my adjustable height work table!
I think a hijack would be welcome at this point ...................
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post #38 of 52 Old 02-06-2017, 11:26 PM
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@Toolman50 ...and others interested.

Here is the gallery of my adjustable height work table. It is a good one and has worked well for me.
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/membe...outer-station/

And a separate thread...
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/us...ktable-122545/
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post #39 of 52 Old 02-07-2017, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks MT Stringer, I guess it's doable. I wonder, does it require "Kreg screws", or can I use whatever fits?
Also, have fun hijacking the thread, I'm already set on the track saw.
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Thanks MT Stringer, I guess it's doable. I wonder, does it require "Kreg screws", or can I use whatever fits?
Also, have fun hijacking the thread, I'm already set on the track saw.
See this:

http://diy.stackexchange.com/questio...et-hole-screws
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