Setting up New Table Saw - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 07-23-2016, 07:54 AM Thread Starter
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Setting up New Table Saw

I've recently purchased a new Ridgid R4512 table saw to add to the tool collection I've been adding too very slowly. A couple of questions about setting up the saw. Took a while to put together and in my excitement to try it out I didn't spend the time I should have to set it up accurately. I spent some time last night and have a few questions.


1) I fully raised the blade and from the front to the back the blade is about .0100" out of square from the left mitre slot. Is this acceptable? To me 10 thousandths of an inch in negligible. How close do you like to be?


2) How much should the fence be "out" at the back of the table? I know it should be a bit to prevent kickback and definitely not closer for the same reason. Right now it's about .0200" further at the back from the left mitre slot.


3) The blade angle adjustment is off. When I have the wheel all the way to the 0 degree stop it's about 3 degrees off of square. I have to set the wheel to about 3 degrees to make the blade square. Is there an adjustment to move that wheel stop? I know I can adjust the sight to make it read zero but it would be nice if the stop was actually 0 degrees.


Thanks in advance for the replies, I've sure I'll have more questions!
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post #2 of 20 Old 07-23-2016, 08:11 AM
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As accurate as you can set it up the better but for myself I don't have the means of measuring 10 thousandths of an inch. I depend more on how it cuts. If the fence is angled toward the blade it will tend to try to pinch or lift the board on the back side of the blade. The 3 degrees is off and needs to be fixed. There should be a stop on the trunion where the blade stops at 90 degrees to the table.
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post #3 of 20 Old 07-23-2016, 09:39 AM
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Where are the angle stops?

Are there set screws in the bottoms of the miter slots? If so, like on my older Craftsman saws, that's where you adjust for 90 degress and 45 degrees stops. It's quite simple and easy to do.

I don't set the fence any amount from parallel to the miter slot. I don't find it makes any difference when ripping. The best insurance against possible kickback is a splitter plate or a riving knife. This helps maintain the work against the fence to prevent it from rotating away and coming up and over the spinning blade... a kickback.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #4 of 20 Old 07-23-2016, 09:40 AM
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I personally set my blade using a combination square. I slide the square in the miter slot against the side closest the blade and lock the rule so it just touches at the front of the blade and the back. If it doesn't work out I adjust. Same with the fence. Can't put a number to how precise it is without dragging my dial indicator down there, but I don't really care either it works just fine. The adjustment for the blade angle stop is the set screw going down through the table near the blade. Might even be 2 of them I don't remember. Tells you in the owners manual. I took mine out, cleaned the oil off of it and put some blue loctite on so it can't change position due to vibration.
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post #5 of 20 Old 07-23-2016, 10:44 AM
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I would fix the 3 degrees off on the blade angle.

The other two dimensions are well within woodworking tolerances. As Steve says, I do not even have an instrument that would measure that small of an error. I often set my fence to be just a hair outside the blade path.

George
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post #6 of 20 Old 07-23-2016, 11:17 AM
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First. .010 is not 10 thousandths of an inch. .0010 is 10 thousandths.

My way.
Miter slots should be parallel to the blade.
I adjust my fence to be just a hair (how's that for precision!) out of parallel to the miter slots, so the fence angles very slightly away from the blade.
It's been a few years since I checked it. Checking now.
The blade is within .0005 of being parallel to the miter slot.
The fence is toed out .001 from the blade.
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post #7 of 20 Old 07-23-2016, 02:46 PM
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Nope. .010 is one hundredth or ten thousandths. .0010 is one thousandth, or ten ten thousandths.


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post #8 of 20 Old 07-23-2016, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies, good to know I'm close enough. I will definitely have to fix that blade angle though. Doesn't seem too hard from the instructions.

Thanks all!
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post #9 of 20 Old 07-23-2016, 11:48 PM
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I'd find a way to adjust the miter slot that was that far out.

The blade shouldn't be off relative to the slots or the fence.

Prove the blade before important cuts; prove it by making a cut, flipping one piece, and looking for light.

The blade angle being off is fine, I never set the blade to the stops in the saw, I set them to a machinist's square, and then prove the angle as noted above. A combination square, a framing square, even one of those nasty, skill-wrecking speed squares would all do, as long as it's square.

"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.
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post #10 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 12:50 AM
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You don't understand basic adjustments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammersix View Post
I'd find a way to adjust the miter slot that was that far out.

(The miterslots are the one thing on a table saw that are not adjustable. They are milled in at the factory and are the references for all other adjustments, namely the trunnions which carry the arbor and blade and the fence.)

The blade shouldn't be off relative to the slots or the fence.

(This is true, because you CAN adjust the blade to the miter slots by loosening the trunnions and moving them to the left or right as necessary.)

Prove the blade before important cuts; prove it by making a cut, flipping one piece, and looking for light.

(If you have set your blade to 90 degrees and checked it there is no need to prove or test it before using the machine from day to day, as it won't change unless another operator has changed it.)


The blade angle being off is fine, I never set the blade to the stops in the saw, I set them to a machinist's square, and then prove the angle as noted above. A combination square, a framing square, even one of those nasty, skill-wrecking speed squares would all do, as long as it's square.

(When setting an angle on the blade other than 90 degrees, an machinist's square or other square will be of no help. A draftsman's triangle or a digital angle cube are ways to set various blade angles, but the draftman's triangles are limited to 30 degrees and 45 degrees, where the angle cube can be set to any angle within the limits of the machine.)
I have adjusted many tablesaws after completely removing the trunnions, cleaning them and reassembling the saw. I don't use any measuring devices other than a feeler guage and a combination square. There are several videos on You Tube that show how this is done.

Grizzly has a good one:
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #11 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
I have adjusted many tablesaws after completely removing the trunnions, cleaning them and reassembling the saw. I don't use any measuring devices other than a feeler guage and a combination square. There are several videos on You Tube that show how this is done.

Grizzly has a good one:
https://youtu.be/bpg39Lbwpu0
I have found that video to be one of the few that actually clearly explains how to set the blade because it goes one step farther than just moving the trunnions but also explains the use of shims and why.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #12 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 04:27 AM
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I'd find a way to adjust the miter slot that was that far out.

The blade shouldn't be off relative to the slots or the fence.

Prove the blade before important cuts; prove it by making a cut, flipping one piece, and looking for light.

The blade angle being off is fine, I never set the blade to the stops in the saw, I set them to a machinist's square, and then prove the angle as noted above. A combination square, a framing square, even one of those nasty, skill-wrecking speed squares would all do, as long as it's square.

"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.
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post #13 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 07:27 AM
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for the second time ...

Miterslots are NOT adjustable. They are milled into the cast iron table accurately at the factory. All adjustments are "referenced" off the miterslot.

It's great to have your opinion, but it's in conflict with the facts and the physics. :smile3:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 03:55 PM
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My table adjusts to the blade.

Sorry about the double post, I meant to say something witty, but I fell asleep.

"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.
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post #15 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammersix View Post
My table adjusts to the blade.

Sorry about the double post, I meant to say something witty, but I fell asleep.
"My table adjusts to the blade."

Please explain.

George
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post #16 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 06:08 PM
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It is a cabinet saw

Contrator saws adjust the trunnions/arbor/blade assembly to the miter slots from under the table where they mount. Like this:


A cabinet saw mounts the trunnions separately to the cabinet as does the table which also mounts to the cabinet. To get the blade parallel to the miter slots, the only reference, you adjust/move the table. Like this:


No matter which type of saw, the miter slot is the reference for all the adjustments. You are not gonna change the milled in slot for love nor money.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 07-24-2016 at 06:12 PM.
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post #17 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 08:45 PM
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" You are not gonna change the milled in slot for love nor money."

Now do not get too carried away with statements. If he had the money, he could take that table top to a foundry and machine shop and I will bet they could fill in the old slot and cut a new one. It would be EXPENSIVE!!!

George
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post #18 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammersix View Post
My table adjusts to the blade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
To get the blade parallel to the miter slots, the only reference, you adjust/move the table.
We're saying the same thing.

The miter slots are cut into the table, the table is adjustable. Moving the table does not adjust the blade to the slots, it adjusts the slots to the blade.

"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.
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post #19 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 10:06 PM
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That is not quite the same ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammersix View Post
I'd find a way to adjust the miter slot that was that far out.

The blade shouldn't be off relative to the slots or the fence.

Prove the blade before important cuts; prove it by making a cut, flipping one piece, and looking for light.

The blade angle being off is fine, I never set the blade to the stops in the saw, I set them to a machinist's square, and then prove the angle as noted above. A combination square, a framing square, even one of those nasty, skill-wrecking speed squares would all do, as long as it's square.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammersix View Post
We're saying the same thing.

The miter slots are cut into the table, the table is adjustable. Moving the table does not adjust the blade to the slots, it adjusts the slots to the blade.
Your earlier post that you adjust the miter slot. I said miter slots are not adjustable. If you had said what you said in the latest post, then there would be no confusion. But this is only true on a cabinet saw as I said in my post above. It does not apply to a contractor saw where you move the trunnions to make the adjustments. By now I'm over this, but I think we have reached consenus .....:smile3:

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #20 of 20 Old 07-24-2016, 10:49 PM
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I think so, too.

But I'm an old man, and we tell stories.

Back when I was an apprentice, I learned a valuable lesson about trade vocabulary and communication. We were building an ornate door, on a public building in downtown Seattle. The door was huge, almost twenty feet high, and the doors arrived on a semi. The rest, the jamb and the interior and exterior trim, were all built by hand, a process that took almost two weeks before we were ready for the doors.

The superintendent had several detail drawings direct from the architect that called out all the details of the doors, (a pair) and almost all the pieces, as well as different sections had names on the drawings. The one in this story, and the one I remember, was "corbel".

The carpenter foreman had a problem with communication. I figured that out a couple months later when he was fired for lack of production. Everyone knew, but he let a couple journeymen go, and then hired replacements. So I watched from the shelter of my apprenticeship while a few journeymen came and went.

Now, remember, the super had drawings, and the drawings had names. Maybe the names were right, maybe not, but there wasn't much arguing with the drawing.

So more than one new journeyman walked onto the jobsite, and the foreman would say "you're going to be working on the corbel." On the drawing, there was a box surrounding an entire structure of trim above the door, and the label said "Corbel: see drawing A". Or B. Or something. I've forgotten. So the foreman would tell the new guy "you're going to be working on the corbel."

One guy said "okay", and went to work. In the wrong place. The foreman stopped him, showed him the drawing, and the guy said "that's not a corbel!" He didn't last very long. Another guy, the guy I learned this lesson from, when told he would be working on the corbel, answered "okay, and by 'corbel' you mean...", and then the foreman showed him the drawing and the guy went to work.

What I learned was that vocabulary and phrases in the trades are for communication, and what they mean and how they're used can vary from job to job, and what matters is the communication.

"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.

Last edited by Jammersix; 07-24-2016 at 10:55 PM. Reason: Wrong type of quote marks.
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