Ripping on a miter saw - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 7Likes
  • 2 Post By woodnthings
  • 1 Post By GeorgeC
  • 1 Post By woodnthings
  • 3 Post By DrRobert
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 Old 06-03-2020, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Dylan JC Buffum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Efland, NC
Posts: 85
View Dylan JC Buffum's Photo Album My Photos
Ripping on a miter saw

I do not own a table saw. I do have a 12 sliding compound miter saw, with an 18 capacity. From time to time I have jigged it to do rip cuts. Despite some boneheaded mistakes, I have all my fingers and I think Im over the peak of the learning curve.

After this experiment, I purchased this 24-tooth, 12 rip blade. I noticed on the packaging that it states its for use in a table saw, and not in a miter saw.

Aside from the general risk of ripping on a miter saw, is there some additional incompatibility between this blade and my saw?

Am I being downright idiotic in trying this tomfoolery to begin with?
Dylan JC Buffum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 06-03-2020, 04:59 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,160
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Scary indeeed, and unsafe as well.....

I have done it once, but strongly advise against it!
I will go into why or how I needed to do it, but years of experience was on my side.



That rip blade may just dig into the workpiece and run forward despite what control you think you may have over it. Don't try it.



Tool Agnostic and NoThankyou like this.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 06-03-2020, 05:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 12,340
View GeorgeC's Photo Album My Photos
Read this on blade differences.https://www.woodmagazine.com/tool-re...n-my-miter-saw


Agree with above on safety.


George
Tool Agnostic likes this.
GeorgeC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 20 Old 06-03-2020, 09:23 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Oakland, CA, USA
Posts: 160
View kiwi_outdoors's Photo Album My Photos
I've done it on an old cheapie radial arm saw. It worked, but I was not thrilled to to it.

Retired engineer-bureaucrat in Oakland, CA. Been working with wood since the 1960's.
kiwi_outdoors is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 06-03-2020, 10:00 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,160
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
A radial arm saw in not a miter saw!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_outdoors View Post
I've done it on an old cheapie radial arm saw. It worked, but I was not thrilled to to it.

A radial arm saw has a carriage that will rotate 90 degrees and turn the blade parallel with the fence so you can rip with it. The miter saw does not have such a carriage. It only slides or pivots with the blade at 90 degrees to the fence. I have ripped many lineal feet using a radial arm saw, including 14 ft long boards. A miter saw is limited to the sliding capacity on the rails, typically about 16" or so, no where near the same.


kiwi_outdoors likes this.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 06-04-2020, 07:33 AM
Interested Observer
 
subroc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Dover, NH, USA
Posts: 1,000
View subroc's Photo Album My Photos
Neither of the links worked for me. Anyway, what I believe to be true is for little more than the cost of even the most rudimentary 12" blade you can find something classed as a table saw on CL. I have seen good running saws for table saws sell for little as little as $50. I have seen them given away. Barring that I would rather see a table saw made from a circular saw and a straight edge than ever use a miter saw for ripping.



The energy and money used on this silly dangerous effort will be better spent on some project that when complete will actually allow you to rip against a fence.


Good luck whatever you decide.
subroc is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 06-04-2020, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NE FL
Posts: 547
View DrRobert's Photo Album My Photos
You're better off with a circular saw, a good blade and a straight edge guide.

Robert
DrRobert is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 06-04-2020, 12:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 5,652
View FrankC's Photo Album My Photos
Freehand ripping is dangerous on a table saw where you only have to control the material, twice as dangerous on a miter saw when you are trying to control both material and blade.

A good hand rip saw will cut through the 12" capacity you have on a miter saw in a few seconds.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

FrankC
http://sawdustmaking.com
http://woodworkerglossary.com
FrankC is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 06-04-2020, 10:14 PM
Senior Member
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Motown
Posts: 653
View _Ogre's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan JC Buffum View Post
I do not own a table saw. I do have a 12” sliding compound miter saw, with an 18” capacity. From time to time I have jigged it to do rip cuts.
i'd say your no more ripping with a miter saw than cutting a crotch, burl or knot would require multiple blade changes
i have a cross cut blade in my ras but have no qualms about mitering past 45 with it than i do ripping short, but wide stock
imo, ripping requires you to push the lumber past the blade

whether you are using the correct blade or not is up in the air
i'm not a fan of changing blades, nor does a little smoke bother me
_Ogre is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 06-05-2020, 12:02 PM
That Guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Mission British Columbia Canada
Posts: 193
View JayArr's Photo Album My Photos
If your blade is above your material you should have a negative hook blade for ripping.

A table saw blade is positive hook because it is moving down and cutting by pressing the wood against the table, the tip of the tooth contacts the wood first. If you put that blade on a Radial Arm Saw or a sliding Compound Miter saw the angle of the teeth is set to fire that wood straight back towards you, the tip of the tooth will contact the wood from the bottom and lift it up as it pushes through - very dangerous. A Negative hook blade on an overhead saw contacts the wood with the heel of the tooth on the top of the wood and then pushes down as the blade rotates making the cut much safer.

My negative hook blades from Freud were over $100 each so you may want to just use the blade you bought for cross cutting and build yourself a track saw for long cuts.

JayArr is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 06-05-2020, 03:42 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,160
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Lost fact about ripping on a RAS .....

When I studied the blade's tendency to lift the work off the table using a standard table saw blade, with a positive hook, I realized that the nose of the blade guard could be rotated to hold the work down in front. This should always be the case when ripping no matter what blade you are using.

For crosscutting, the blade guard can be in it's normal horizontal position for maximum depth of cut. When I first began using a RAS some 25 or 30 years ago there weren't any negative hook blades at Sears, just the standard table saw blades, so that's what most folks used. That's why there were so many close calls or amputations, from the work being grabbed or thrown back. People didn't always pull the saw into the work, another big mistake. Pushing the saw into the work makes it want to rise up as the teeth enter the wood from the direction of rotation, lifting it up. You needed a very firm grip on your workpiece, holding it down and pressing it inwards towards the fence. Pushing it into the workpiece was an accident waiting to happen. Always pull your saw from behind the fence across your workpiece. However, a negative hook blade makes it much safer.

A hand held circular saw has the blade entering from the top just like a radial arm saw, BUT a circ saw has a base plate unlike a RAS. The base plate presses down on the work from the weight of the saw keeping the workpiece in place. The table saw, the radial arm saw, the miter saw all have some things in common but they are distinctly different in their operating process.



The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 07-12-2020, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Dylan JC Buffum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Efland, NC
Posts: 85
View Dylan JC Buffum's Photo Album My Photos
Follow-up: the blade made a HUGE difference. I got clean, easy rip cuts. This was the same material and cut that was billowing steam and smoke and bogging down the blade with a 60t blade.

To prevent the saw from running along the workpiece, I cut a block to jam in the slide so it couldnt move forward.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 278EF282-9C9A-4423-80F9-F4C9CAC0C065.jpg (460.2 KB, 36 views)
Dylan JC Buffum is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old Yesterday, 11:00 AM
Junior Member
 
Nick2727's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: edmonton
Posts: 24
View Nick2727's Photo Album My Photos
That looks super dangerous, honestly look into getting a used table saw.

Glad you got it to work, it really doesn't look like a long term solution though.

Take care, stay safe!

Nick Johnston
Edmonton, AB, Canada
Nick2727 is online now  
post #14 of 20 Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Pa
Posts: 2,954
View TimPa's Photo Album My Photos
your cut will be much safer with a negative hook blade (clamp the piece down and be completely prepared for a saw coming toward you), and a FULL fence across the back, so the work is supported on both sides of the cut - which if unsupported is where i think the danger falls on this procedure. btdt
TimPa is online now  
post #15 of 20 Old Yesterday, 04:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SE, KY
Posts: 186
View homestd's Photo Album My Photos
Man!!! That blade is just sitting there waiting to chew something! Give it up, please. Where do you live? I'll rip it for you. I worked for a wood products manufacturer for over 10 years and I've seen some crazy **** but your operation there is semi-life threatening.


homestd is online now  
post #16 of 20 Old Yesterday, 05:09 PM
Interested Observer
 
subroc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Dover, NH, USA
Posts: 1,000
View subroc's Photo Album My Photos
At the end of the day, I don't really care what the OP does. If he wants to do a cutting operation with his tools that others find dangerous, all the power in the world to him. The OP can surely evaluate his own shop practice and shop safety.

That said, an anecdote on the power of a miter saw. A couple/few years back I had cut some oak strips 3/4X1-1/2" for banding on a 1-1/2 plywood router table top glue-up. I was cutting some 45 degree ends on those strips and fitting them. I cut one of them and the end piece wedged itself into the insert and then shot out of the saw. The piece ejected with so much power it went through a panel in the garage door. Even after it "holed" the door it ended up halfway down the driveway. I have a lot of respect for the power of a 12" miter saw.

As it relates to safe work habits we all have a line and they are all different. While none of us is perfect to be sure as that example clearly demonstrates, I surely don't invite obvious breaches of safety into my shop.

To the OP, good luck with your set-up.

Last edited by subroc; Yesterday at 05:14 PM.
subroc is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old Yesterday, 08:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SE, KY
Posts: 186
View homestd's Photo Album My Photos
OK...I apologize for the alarmist post. I don't know what experience you have or your skill level, and I also, sometimes, use equipment for something it wasn't designed to do. I have learned to work with what I have. Good luck and be safe.


Charlie


homestd is online now  
post #18 of 20 Old Yesterday, 09:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 138
View B Coll's Photo Album My Photos
I have ripped on a radial arm saw and realized you have to be half out of your mind. It is an accident waiting to happen. My grandfather always stressed "right tool for the right job". I am sure you have a circular saw. You would be far better served making a sled for your circular saw long enough to do your rips. It will be far more accurate and you will live to talk about it.
B Coll is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old Yesterday, 09:53 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,160
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
I will not quote a previous post here .......

I also have ripped on a RAS, maybe about 1,000 lineal feet, each side of a 14 ft long 1" Cypress board, maybe 30 or so boards. There was NOT a single issue other than I used an extension cord of the wrong gauge, so the motor was overheating. It can be done safely and NO you don't have to be "out of your mind". If you do NOT know how the process can be done safely then by all means don't do it, BUT don't argue against it either. Here the thread showing my 28 ft long straight line rip using a 10" Craftsman RAS:
https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/evil-machine-28461/






The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; Yesterday at 09:55 PM.
woodnthings is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old Yesterday, 10:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NE FL
Posts: 547
View DrRobert's Photo Album My Photos
Dylan, the best way to get even cheeks and shoulders is to lay it out with a marking knife.

It’s a well thought out jig, but sometimes it is quicker (and safer!) to do certain tasks by hand. The time it takes to design and make a jig, do test cuts, dial it in, etc. you very well may have them all cut with a handsaw. Plus, if it’s a one off jig, you have all that time invested and never use it again.

My point is hand tool work can be just as accurate, in some cases more accurate, than a machine.

Either way you go, don’t try to cut the tenons perfect off the saw it’s too stressful and very difficult to do. Cut them big and use a chisel, rasp, and/or block plane to tune them up.

Cut the mortises first and fit the tenons to the mortises.

Robert
DrRobert is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome