Currently mid rebuild of my table saw, shes an old beaut; vintage craftsman I've had for a while. Got it off craigslist for 100 bucks. Has upgraded 3hp motor; solid cast top. The wings are cast steel, but very very solid. I was having problems with the fence system (gonna make my own now), the blade never got to 90 degrees (89.7 was best I could do), run out on the blade was like 15-20 thou, and the vibrations!!! Oh my lord the vibrations are bad.
Things I'm currently doing and planning on
1) tap the main top to allow easier installation and alignment of the wings
2) replace bearings (outboard bearing is toast)
3) stone the arbor faces
4) flatten and restore the top
5) I *THINK* its possible to expand it to a 12" saw. Tons of room in here
6) replace every bolt
7) Restore the cabinet
Questions :
1) I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas or suggestions on addressing the vibration issue. Would some dampers be good here?
2) Anything else while I have the whole thing torn apart?
3) Can I align the yoke/blade with the top while I have everything taken apart?
Currently mid rebuild of my table saw, shes an old beaut; vintage craftsman I've had for a while. Got it off craigslist for 100 bucks. Has upgraded 3hp motor; solid cast top. The wings are cast steel, but very very solid. I was having problems with the fence system (gonna make my own now), the blade never got to 90 degrees (89.7 was best I could do), run out on the blade was like 15-20 thou, and the vibrations!!! Oh my lord the vibrations are bad.
Things I'm currently doing and planning on
1) tap the main top to allow easier installation and alignment of the wings
2) replace bearings (outboard bearing is toast)
3) stone the arbor faces
4) flatten and restore the top
5) I *THINK* its possible to expand it to a 12" saw. Tons of room in here
6) replace every bolt
7) Restore the cabinet
Questions :
1) I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas or suggestions on addressing the vibration issue. Would some dampers be good here?
2) Anything else while I have the whole thing torn apart?
3) Can I align the yoke/blade with the top while I have everything taken apart?
I presume that it’s a belt drive saw so make sure that you are using a fresh, high quality belt, ideally a cogged style belt.
Check the arbor bearings. If they are worn they will contribute to runout and vibration.
You have to align the blade with the mitre gauge slots and that’s only possible when the top is right side up in the base.
It’s a light duty saw with a single drive belt I expect. Running a 3hp motor on a single belt is borderline for power transfer. My Unisaw has three belts and it’s only 1.5 hp. Converting to a 12” blade is a bad idea because the saw was never designed for that kind of load. The physics of the additional leverage from the larger blade (if it safely fits) would overwhelm a single belt.
I'm guessing the vibration issue is bearing related, but the arbor shaft could also be bent. I say this because the saw was not designed to have a 3HP motor hanging on it. So I suggest you put the correct size motor back on. Cast iron pulleys and a segmented belt will help with vibration, too.
A 12" blade is not really a good idea. There is no real advantage, the blades are considerably more expensive and cost a lot more to sharpen. They really require a 5HP motor, too.
You can't align the trunnion until the saw is reassembled, A blade or calibration disc is installed, then adjust trunnion to bring blade parallel with miter slot.
89.7°, although close, would not be acceptable for me because a minor error can become multiplied throughout the project. How are you measuring it? It could be related to the bearing issue, or debris clogging the screw. If you can't figure it out, then may need to do some grinding on the trunnion or shim it.
Tapping the top may or may not be helpful. The truth is the through clearance holes are a good design. If you tap the hole make sure there is enough thread engagement in the spot you thread.
I would not change the blade size.
A restoration can be many things depending on who you ask. It can be as simple as replacing a couple parts to paint, bearings and replacing every worn part to an update to more modern components. When considering resurfacing the top, what are you looking for? Is it warped? How much is it out? Make sure you do it with the wings on. Also, things change when you bolt things back up to the top.
Why and how would you "stone" the arbor faces? I expect truing it up on a lathe when you have the arbor out for bearings is the way to go.
An image of the top and the case would be helpful.
I would carry on with what you have suggested, except omit the 12" blade, steel pulleys and a link belt will also help eliminate vibration. No harm in the 3 HP motor, and yes you can align the trunnions with the miter slots while the saw is off the base it is actually much easier. Won't hurt to check the arbor after new bearings installed, a touch up with a stone may help.
You have a contractor type saw, with the trunnions mounted to the underside of the table. It's not a 3 HP saw and if it says so, it's not true. Many Craftsman saws were labeled 3 Hp as "maximum developed HP", but were a actually 1 HP or maybe 1 1/2 HP. The holes for the sliding motor mount are the same as a model 100 Craftsman saw I owned, early 1960's vintage. I did try a 2 HP 220 volt Baldor motor on it and while it worked OK it definitely had too much power for typical home usage.
The fence needed a complete redesign so a made my own rail and head. Finally, I retired it but used the table in my Sawzilla build, a triple 12" saw confabulation shown in My Photos.
New bearings are a must and easy to do. Align the trunnions to the miter slot while it's out of the cabinet for access to both sides, easier that way. If you make a new fence rail, consider the Biesemeyer design OR purchase A Delta T 2 clone from Amazon.
Really? I would have thought that while more powerful than the typical home table saw motor it wouldn't be over powered or "too much power" for home applications.
No Im still here lol. One of my cats suddenly passed away yesterday, so my wife and I were pretty distraught. Naturally, table saw rebuild is second fiddle to that.
To address some things
@gmercer -> thats the picture of the top taken off and disassembled, no belt to speak of here?
@DrRobert -> All testing is done with mitutoyo dial indicators and digital readout angle gauges. 89.7 drives me BONKERS, but I think I have that sorted. The previous owner greased the trunions so they were just packed with rock hard sawdust chunks.
@subroc -> The top is 7/16" thick cast iron; there would be TONS of engagement on bolts threaded in. I would still use locking nuts on the reverse to make sure nothing moves and give it some rigidity as well. Installing the leaves is an enormous pain in the ass actually. As far as the top, I just meant truing up the miter slots and getting rid of the enormous amounts of rust and stuff on it. For the arbor, I'd LOVE to lathe it up but I lack that particular machine haha. The outboard bearing was shot to hell, so once I get it pulled out of the bearings, I'll check its run out and if its not up to snuff, I'll simply get a new arbor. I have the ability to true up the plate faces to parallel to each other, but not fix run out on the shaft. One way or another, I'll get that part sorted. Given the outboard bearing was toast, Im hoping that fixes the issues.
@woodnthings -> The motor was a replacement. I double checked it, its a Marathon 2hp (thought it was 3!) rigid mount motor. Power has never been an issue (too much or too little). Considering the absolute quality of the unit, I will not be replacing it. Nothing "portable" about this beast though, she weighs a good 400 pounds easily. To move it, I needed 3 people to help lift it 4" to get on a trailer, and it was HEAVY.
General
-> The reason I want to go to a 12" blade is due to resaw capacity. 10" blade gets me not quite 4" so 16/4 thick stock I have to flip to rip it. Maybe once everything is perfectly lined up this wouldnt be an issue? Ill hold off on the 12" blade part then. I was actually surprised at the belt, its a kevlar belt and has almost no wear at all; Im aware the linked belts should help things, but they are quite pricey. Currently saving up for an 8" helical head jointer, so every penny needs to be utilized effectively. I'll take a look at steel v pulleys.
I have never seen a 12" contractor saw with a belt drive motor, but that don't mean it doesn't exist. My 12" contractor saws are all direct drive, built in motor under the cabinet and the arbor is one end of the motor shaft. If you can fit a 12" blade then go for it, but beware that a 5/8" arbor on a 12" blade is not the norm. They do exist, but are more of a special order and are expensive. I have a few myself, but they are older.]
I actually have a forrest 12" 5/8 flat kerf blade which is almost the entire point of why I'd want to go 12" here lol. I also have an arbor adapter from my dewalt miter saw as well. Right now I run the forrest blade inthe dewalt. Fantastic blade! I picked up a makita chop saw from good will for 10$ and it came with that blade lol, talk about a good deal!
As far as contractor vs cabinet is concerned, this table saw is a bit more "stout" than a typical saw you'd get nowadays. I've owned a rigid 4512 and a couple cheapos here and there, this is just an entirely different animal lol.
Im not dead set on the 12", it was just a thought I had. All I'd have to do is file off like 1/8" off the back side to fit a 12" blade. Not super vital, and if I can get everything lined up, then flip cuts are probably going to work out ok.
edit: For what its worth... I've been wood working for many years, im not real "green" here, apologize if I came off that way. I've just never rebuilt a table saw, but I know good bones when I have them
I know, I know, get a steel pulley. I couldn't find one for a reasonable cost, in the right size, that looked to be half decent quality.
Found a nice 2" cnc'd aluminum pulley for a decent price without waiting 3 weeks to get it from grainger. Bearings should be a slight upgrade from stock units.
If you try rebuilding a table saw and dont have a bearing puller, youre in for a rough time. That said, the "good bearing" has a delicious crunch, and the outboard bearing wont free rotate lol. Definitely causing problems and glad to be replacing them.
and tomorrow Ill be setting up a jig to test out the runout on the arbor shaft and face.
Not rocket surgery, but not all that easy either ......
Acme threads, maybe left hand? Precise bearing ODs. Large enough stock to start with to have a substantial flange OR weld one on a smaller diameter? Keyway for the drive pulley? I'm thinkin" glad it ain't gonna be me. :|
And you know in the big picture of life and woodworking, what's a little arbor run out gonna do to the kerf anyway? As long as the blade runs true, without any wobble, a little bounce in the vertical plane won't hurt .... or will it?
Nah, other ways around this. Precision rod is readily available, and some of the features that exist arent even close to necessary. Also... not my first rodeo here.
Arbor runout would burn through bearings and cause power loss and vibration. In larger machines its an extremely high point of failure. Its kind of a big deal actually. Im not going to be super picky here, am given the bearing damage im hoping that is the issue, but if it is "wobbly", simply ignoring it wont do me justice. I dont want to take this thing apart for another 10 years.
As far as making an arbor shaft, it wouldnt be as difficult as youd think it would be. Id buy precision rod (cheaper than you think), and you dont NEED reverse threading or a keyway. Set screws work wonders. (Yes they are "good enough").
You came here asking for advice about rebuilding a tablesaw. One would think that a fellow with your CV would not need advice on a matter as minor as you suggest it is.
One would think considering the contention ive received already would be understanding of why im a little hesitant to be warm and receiving to ignorant critiques.
If youre here to learn, im here to help. Im not here to hold your hand while getting insulted for caring about 1/4" wood gaps, metrology, and straight edges that arent made of wood and come from the flea market 12 years ago.
Edit : i came for advice, ala things i should do while it's apart and things to improve it. I have decades of experience in engineering and maintenance, this is my first table saw rebuild. I divulge to experts where i can, or else i wont learn. I.e. getting a smaller pulley, and sticking with a 10" blade size.
Took the bearings apart to inspect, and to my surprise they are actually totally fine. The problem was improper installation. The previous owner likely replaced these bearings and used a socket or something to hammer it on. This can be "ok" if you do it properly, but he crushed in the outer race seals. This will press on the retainer and raise friction dramatically. Once i removed the seals, they spun free and have no internal damage. Arbor shaft has some burrs Ill take care of, but all in all good shape. Also magnetizing the keyway (the key is on the small size, and Im not trying to fight it).
The end of the shaft was mushroomed over, and I actually needed a cheater bar to get the bearing off. Bearing slides on the tip smoothly and progresses to the near interference fit where the bearing flange is located. Has some deep scratches, but I cant be bothered with those.
Most off the shelf bearings use whatever cheap grease they can get their hands on. Glad I decided to replace the grease, because this stuff is almost non existent. Bearings were fully cleaned and dried before repacking and sealing. Replaced cheapo lithium grease with polyurea grease. Intended for high load, high rpm, LONG SERVICE LIFE applications. I can't think of anything better to use here. It also naturally helps prevent rust. Messy job, but glad I did it. If you DO decide to repack bearing grease, make very sure you are VERY careful with the race seals, if you bend it, you dont reuse it. Also, you dont "fill" the bearing, you apply grease to one side, then use your palm to push the grease through to the other side. Once you get a solid band of squeeze through, you wipe the bearing surfaces evening it out, and then seal it up.
Theres almost nothing in it? I actually cant believe how little grease there is in this thing. NSK makes decent stuff. I dunno. The other one is a LOT better though.
You reused the old bearings, but replaced the seals? I never knew you could buy just the seals separately! I found bearings at Tractor Supply that were the correct size for my Craftsman 6" jointer. I guess all those numbers are universal ... 6202 and so forth, and the final letter is the seal type? https://electricalfundablog.com/identify-bearing-number-calculation-nomenclature/
You reused the old bearings, but replaced the seals? I never knew you could buy just the seals separately! I found bearings at Tractor Supply that were the correct size for my Craftsman 6" jointer. I guess all those numbers are universal ... 6202 and so forth, and the final letter is the seal type? https://electricalfundablog.com/identify-bearing-number-calculation-nomenclature/
No, these are new bearings. As a rule and habit, I always check new bearings and typically put in higher quality greases, as manufacturers care more about their bottom line than ensuring adequate grease coverage. Glad I did to, because the one bearing was damn near dry. Im not sure if you can buy seals alone or not though, if I damage a seal I usually just get a new bearing, they arent *that* expensive, and I cant remember the last time I damaged one lol. If the seals werent damaged on the old bearings, I would have reused them, they are completely ok internally. The seals were crushed in, real bad on the outboard one (would barely rotate!)
And yes, 62 is the type (deep groove ball), 02 is the size , LU, R, 2R, Z 2Z etc etc are the seal types. Some slight changes here and there.
edit 2 : metal shielding (zz) are probably not ideal in this situation. Metal seals are far better in regards to rolling resistance compared to rubber seals, but rubber seals seal a lot better. considering this is getting coated in saw dust, I'd make a strong argument for the rubber seals here.
edit 3: Food for thought, in this regard, there is no such thing as an "arbor bearing". Marketing gimmicks like that usually make you pay far more for an inferior product unfortunately. Im sure they work fine, but 12$ for no name bearings isn't my cup of tea here.
Found out why it wouldnt go to 90! This stuff is hard like a rock, stoned it real careful and it glides real smooth now. The other side was actually way worse, but no need showing both sides lol
No idea what the crap is stuck on it, but its rock hard. might be epoxy??? Anyway, its going pretty smoothly. Will update soon, this is going WAY faster than I thought it would lol
edit: top also weighs a good hundred pounds? Dont have a portable belt sander lol
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