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post #1 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 04:53 AM Thread Starter
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Rebuilding Table Saw

Hey guys,

Currently mid rebuild of my table saw, shes an old beaut; vintage craftsman I've had for a while. Got it off craigslist for 100 bucks. Has upgraded 3hp motor; solid cast top. The wings are cast steel, but very very solid. I was having problems with the fence system (gonna make my own now), the blade never got to 90 degrees (89.7 was best I could do), run out on the blade was like 15-20 thou, and the vibrations!!! Oh my lord the vibrations are bad.

Things I'm currently doing and planning on

1) tap the main top to allow easier installation and alignment of the wings
2) replace bearings (outboard bearing is toast)
3) stone the arbor faces
4) flatten and restore the top
5) I *THINK* its possible to expand it to a 12" saw. Tons of room in here
6) replace every bolt
7) Restore the cabinet

Questions :
1) I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas or suggestions on addressing the vibration issue. Would some dampers be good here?
2) Anything else while I have the whole thing torn apart?
3) Can I align the yoke/blade with the top while I have everything taken apart?

Thanks for any help and info!

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post #2 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 08:06 AM
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Rebuilding Table Saw

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Originally Posted by bob493 View Post
Hey guys,

Currently mid rebuild of my table saw, shes an old beaut; vintage craftsman I've had for a while. Got it off craigslist for 100 bucks. Has upgraded 3hp motor; solid cast top. The wings are cast steel, but very very solid. I was having problems with the fence system (gonna make my own now), the blade never got to 90 degrees (89.7 was best I could do), run out on the blade was like 15-20 thou, and the vibrations!!! Oh my lord the vibrations are bad.


Things I'm currently doing and planning on

1) tap the main top to allow easier installation and alignment of the wings

2) replace bearings (outboard bearing is toast)

3) stone the arbor faces

4) flatten and restore the top

5) I *THINK* its possible to expand it to a 12" saw. Tons of room in here

6) replace every bolt

7) Restore the cabinet

Questions :

1) I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas or suggestions on addressing the vibration issue. Would some dampers be good here?

2) Anything else while I have the whole thing torn apart?

3) Can I align the yoke/blade with the top while I have everything taken apart?


Thanks for any help and info!

I presume that itís a belt drive saw so make sure that you are using a fresh, high quality belt, ideally a cogged style belt.

Check the arbor bearings. If they are worn they will contribute to runout and vibration.

You have to align the blade with the mitre gauge slots and thatís only possible when the top is right side up in the base.

Itís a light duty saw with a single drive belt I expect. Running a 3hp motor on a single belt is borderline for power transfer. My Unisaw has three belts and itís only 1.5 hp. Converting to a 12Ē blade is a bad idea because the saw was never designed for that kind of load. The physics of the additional leverage from the larger blade (if it safely fits) would overwhelm a single belt.



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Last edited by DavidR8; 11-13-2019 at 08:13 AM.
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post #3 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 12:24 PM
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I'm guessing the vibration issue is bearing related, but the arbor shaft could also be bent. I say this because the saw was not designed to have a 3HP motor hanging on it. So I suggest you put the correct size motor back on. Cast iron pulleys and a segmented belt will help with vibration, too.

A 12" blade is not really a good idea. There is no real advantage, the blades are considerably more expensive and cost a lot more to sharpen. They really require a 5HP motor, too.

You can't align the trunnion until the saw is reassembled, A blade or calibration disc is installed, then adjust trunnion to bring blade parallel with miter slot.

89.7į, although close, would not be acceptable for me because a minor error can become multiplied throughout the project. How are you measuring it? It could be related to the bearing issue, or debris clogging the screw. If you can't figure it out, then may need to do some grinding on the trunnion or shim it.
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post #4 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 01:08 PM
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From your photo, it looks like the belt is turned inside out.

Gary
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post #5 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 03:07 PM
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What model saw is it?

Tapping the top may or may not be helpful. The truth is the through clearance holes are a good design. If you tap the hole make sure there is enough thread engagement in the spot you thread.

I would not change the blade size.

A restoration can be many things depending on who you ask. It can be as simple as replacing a couple parts to paint, bearings and replacing every worn part to an update to more modern components. When considering resurfacing the top, what are you looking for? Is it warped? How much is it out? Make sure you do it with the wings on. Also, things change when you bolt things back up to the top.

Why and how would you "stone" the arbor faces? I expect truing it up on a lathe when you have the arbor out for bearings is the way to go.

An image of the top and the case would be helpful.

Good luck with the restoration.
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post #6 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 04:13 PM
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I would carry on with what you have suggested, except omit the 12" blade, steel pulleys and a link belt will also help eliminate vibration. No harm in the 3 HP motor, and yes you can align the trunnions with the miter slots while the saw is off the base it is actually much easier. Won't hurt to check the arbor after new bearings installed, a touch up with a stone may help.

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post #7 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 04:36 PM
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Based in this image ......

You have a contractor type saw, with the trunnions mounted to the underside of the table. It's not a 3 HP saw and if it says so, it's not true. Many Craftsman saws were labeled 3 Hp as "maximum developed HP", but were a actually 1 HP or maybe 1 1/2 HP. The holes for the sliding motor mount are the same as a model 100 Craftsman saw I owned, early 1960's vintage. I did try a 2 HP 220 volt Baldor motor on it and while it worked OK it definitely had too much power for typical home usage.
The fence needed a complete redesign so a made my own rail and head. Finally, I retired it but used the table in my Sawzilla build, a triple 12" saw confabulation shown in My Photos.


New bearings are a must and easy to do. Align the trunnions to the miter slot while it's out of the cabinet for access to both sides, easier that way. If you make a new fence rail, consider the Biesemeyer design OR purchase A Delta T 2 clone from Amazon.



The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 11-13-2019 at 07:28 PM.
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post #8 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
...I did try a 2 HP 220 volt Baldor motor on it and while it worked OK it definitely had too much power for typical home usage...

Really? I would have thought that while more powerful than the typical home table saw motor it wouldn't be over powered or "too much power" for home applications.
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post #9 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 11:17 PM
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Lightbulb It's just my feeling .......

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Really? I would have thought that while more powerful than the typical home table saw motor it wouldn't be over powered or "too much power" for home applications.

I remember ripping something, maybe plywood and the saw just tore through it like butter. I almost didn't have to feed it. Compared to the original 1 HP motor, it just seemed scary powerful. Most of the material I cut with that saw was sheet stock 3/4" thick and an occasional 2X so I didn't need a great deal of power. It was used as a "carry around" in the back of my truck when I needed a "portable" but with that heavy motor and side extensions, it was a beast even stripped down. I finally got a nice Bosch 4100-09 and saved my back!




I also have a 5 HP Powermatic when the going get rough .....

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #10 of 51 Old 11-13-2019, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
I remember ripping something, maybe plywood and the saw just tore through it like butter. I almost didn't have to feed it. Compared to the original 1 HP motor, it just seemed scary powerful. Most of the material I cut with that saw was sheet stock 3/4" thick and an occasional 2X so I didn't need a great deal of power. It was used as a "carry around" in the back of my truck when I needed a "portable" but with that heavy motor and side extensions, it was a beast even stripped down. I finally got a nice Bosch 4100-09 and saved my back!




I also have a 5 HP Powermatic when the going get rough .....

You do have a great selection of saws.


I only ask because I have another one of these Craftsman floor model saws and was considering a 2HP Leeson, Baldor or similar when I restore that saw. Never considered if it might be too much power. Was part of the issue with your thoughts on the other saw because it was a bench top saw?
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post #11 of 51 Old 11-14-2019, 01:13 AM
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I think we lost the OP...


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post #12 of 51 Old 11-14-2019, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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No Im still here lol. One of my cats suddenly passed away yesterday, so my wife and I were pretty distraught. Naturally, table saw rebuild is second fiddle to that.

To address some things
@gmercer -> thats the picture of the top taken off and disassembled, no belt to speak of here?

@DrRobert -> All testing is done with mitutoyo dial indicators and digital readout angle gauges. 89.7 drives me BONKERS, but I think I have that sorted. The previous owner greased the trunions so they were just packed with rock hard sawdust chunks.

@subroc -> The top is 7/16" thick cast iron; there would be TONS of engagement on bolts threaded in. I would still use locking nuts on the reverse to make sure nothing moves and give it some rigidity as well. Installing the leaves is an enormous pain in the ass actually. As far as the top, I just meant truing up the miter slots and getting rid of the enormous amounts of rust and stuff on it. For the arbor, I'd LOVE to lathe it up but I lack that particular machine haha. The outboard bearing was shot to hell, so once I get it pulled out of the bearings, I'll check its run out and if its not up to snuff, I'll simply get a new arbor. I have the ability to true up the plate faces to parallel to each other, but not fix run out on the shaft. One way or another, I'll get that part sorted. Given the outboard bearing was toast, Im hoping that fixes the issues.

@woodnthings -> The motor was a replacement. I double checked it, its a Marathon 2hp (thought it was 3!) rigid mount motor. Power has never been an issue (too much or too little). Considering the absolute quality of the unit, I will not be replacing it. Nothing "portable" about this beast though, she weighs a good 400 pounds easily. To move it, I needed 3 people to help lift it 4" to get on a trailer, and it was HEAVY.

General
-> The reason I want to go to a 12" blade is due to resaw capacity. 10" blade gets me not quite 4" so 16/4 thick stock I have to flip to rip it. Maybe once everything is perfectly lined up this wouldnt be an issue? Ill hold off on the 12" blade part then. I was actually surprised at the belt, its a kevlar belt and has almost no wear at all; Im aware the linked belts should help things, but they are quite pricey. Currently saving up for an 8" helical head jointer, so every penny needs to be utilized effectively. I'll take a look at steel v pulleys.

Thanks guys!
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post #13 of 51 Old 11-14-2019, 09:34 PM
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Rebuilding Table Saw

Iím sorry to hear about losing your cat. Been there. Majorly sucks.

Do you have photos of the complete saw?


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post #14 of 51 Old 11-14-2019, 10:40 PM
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It may be a 12" saw?




I have never seen a 12" contractor saw with a belt drive motor, but that don't mean it doesn't exist. My 12" contractor saws are all direct drive, built in motor under the cabinet and the arbor is one end of the motor shaft. If you can fit a 12" blade then go for it, but beware that a 5/8" arbor on a 12" blade is not the norm. They do exist, but are more of a special order and are expensive. I have a few myself, but they are older.
https://www.amazon.com/Forrest-WW124...785563&sr=8-12

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #15 of 51 Old 11-14-2019, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Iím sorry to hear about losing your cat. Been there. Majorly sucks.

Do you have photos of the complete saw?


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Thank you.

Im sure I do somewhere, but nothing I can find atm. Its just a prototypical craftsman saw, nothing special to see atm.

Looks pretty much just like this, just far more rusty

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post #16 of 51 Old 11-14-2019, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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I have never seen a 12" contractor saw with a belt drive motor, but that don't mean it doesn't exist. My 12" contractor saws are all direct drive, built in motor under the cabinet and the arbor is one end of the motor shaft. If you can fit a 12" blade then go for it, but beware that a 5/8" arbor on a 12" blade is not the norm. They do exist, but are more of a special order and are expensive. I have a few myself, but they are older.]
I actually have a forrest 12" 5/8 flat kerf blade which is almost the entire point of why I'd want to go 12" here lol. I also have an arbor adapter from my dewalt miter saw as well. Right now I run the forrest blade inthe dewalt. Fantastic blade! I picked up a makita chop saw from good will for 10$ and it came with that blade lol, talk about a good deal!

As far as contractor vs cabinet is concerned, this table saw is a bit more "stout" than a typical saw you'd get nowadays. I've owned a rigid 4512 and a couple cheapos here and there, this is just an entirely different animal lol.

Im not dead set on the 12", it was just a thought I had. All I'd have to do is file off like 1/8" off the back side to fit a 12" blade. Not super vital, and if I can get everything lined up, then flip cuts are probably going to work out ok.


edit: For what its worth... I've been wood working for many years, im not real "green" here, apologize if I came off that way. I've just never rebuilt a table saw, but I know good bones when I have them :)
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post #17 of 51 Old 11-14-2019, 11:24 PM
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I'd be interested in seeing your conversion to 12" ....

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I actually have a forrest 12" 5/8 flat kerf blade which is almost the entire point of why I'd want to go 12" here lol. I also have an arbor adapter from my dewalt miter saw as well. Right now I run the forrest blade inthe dewalt. Fantastic blade! I picked up a makita chop saw from good will for 10$ and it came with that blade lol, talk about a good deal!

As far as contractor vs cabinet is concerned, this table saw is a bit more "stout" than a typical saw you'd get nowadays. I've owned a rigid 4512 and a couple cheapos here and there, this is just an entirely different animal lol.

Im not dead set on the 12", it was just a thought I had. All I'd have to do is file off like 1/8" off the back side to fit a 12" blade.
Not super vital, and if I can get everything lined up, then flip cuts are probably going to work out ok.


edit: For what its worth... I've been wood working for many years, im not real "green" here, apologize if I came off that way. I've just never rebuilt a table saw, but I know good bones when I have them :)

I would not have thought it possible, but as you say grinding off 1/8" from the inside of the blade cover wouldn't be a big deal. There's plenty of material there and it's not structural. Be sure there's enough clearance is the main thing. Since it's your concept, I'd like to see you carry it through. That 2 HP Leeson motor would power it, no problem. Just check the clearance in all blade positions, highest and lowest.

In my shop and my choice of projects, I rarely need to cut more than 2 1/2" and it's kinda tough on the motor to make a full pass in hardwood. My direct drive motors are 220 volt only and develop about 2 1/2 HP. By the way, I use 10" Diablo blades in my 12" saw because they are cheap and available. For ripping thicker stock I use the bandsaw. It's easier and safer in my opinion.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 11-14-2019 at 11:27 PM.
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post #18 of 51 Old 11-14-2019, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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I would not have thought it possible, but as you say grinding off 1/8" from the inside of the blade cover wouldn't be a big deal. There's plenty of material there and it's not structural. Be sure there's enough clearance is the main thing. Since it's your concept, I'd like to see you carry it through. That 2 HP Leeson motor would power it, no problem.



In my shop and my choice of projects, I rarely need to cut more than 2 1/2" and it's kinda tough on the motor to make a full pass in hardwood. My direct drive motors are 220 volt only and develop about 2 1/2 HP. By the way, I use 10" Diablo blades in my 12" saw because they are cheap and available. For ripping thicker stock I use the bandsaw. It's easier and safer in my opinion.
The more i think about it, the more I just need toget a good bandsaw lmao. I used to have this awesome atlas MONSTER. It was full cast, 14" resaw, just an absolute beast. When we sold our house it was just easier to leave it though, as it weighed almost 1000 pounds and Id need a whole crew to move the damn thing. I miss her :(. Im probably gonna just get a half decent laguna or grizzly bandsaw or build my own here. Ill stick with the 10" capacity and work in a splitter. This saw is so old it doenst have a riving knife, so I think thats probably the more intelligent move anyway.
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post #19 of 51 Old 11-14-2019, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
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FWIW, this is 10" compared to 12". This little tiny tab is all that needs to be filed back a little bit to fit a 12" blade without issue.
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post #20 of 51 Old 11-16-2019, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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I know, I know, get a steel pulley. I couldn't find one for a reasonable cost, in the right size, that looked to be half decent quality.

Found a nice 2" cnc'd aluminum pulley for a decent price without waiting 3 weeks to get it from grainger. Bearings should be a slight upgrade from stock units.
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