R4512 table saw warped - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 09-22-2013, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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R4512 table saw warped

I purchased a new Ridgid 4512 tablesaw in 2011. Didn't use it much. Now I want to do some finer woodworking with it. Went to adjust the insert and found the table top has a hump in it. The table near the left side of the insert is high by about 1/64th (.018) of an inch as measured with feeler gauges and a square. Is this a grossly out of true table top or just slightly off? I have the lifetime service agreement. I want to make a sliding jig among other things and don't want to get too involved with this saw if I have to get it fixed. How does the top get warped anyway? I did not drop or abuse it and usage has been very light. I need this saw to cut pretty accurately as I want to mill some window sills and jambs with it among other things. I checked the alignment at full up position and it was only very slightly off so at this point did not want to adjust it. Should I pursue a warranty claim?
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post #2 of 29 Old 09-22-2013, 06:11 PM
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How straight was the reference edge you are using to determine the deviation? Ridgid may ask the same question.

A hump would infer one side of the insert is higher than the outer edge of the same side. Is this the case, or is the table tilted slightly? If the latter, this should be possible to correct by shims.

If a cast iron piece has not had the internal stresses of cooling removed, it can move as it is machined.

The table top should have had mitre slots and cutout for the blade machined and then the top flattened. If there were still internal stresses it could move over time.

An interesting post #13 on cast iron in this thread. Not relevant to your issue, but interesting.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/h...ble-saw-55359/

I have no idea what tolerance Ridgid allow for the flatness of a table top, but if you try the warranty claim you will soon find out.
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post #3 of 29 Old 09-22-2013, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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The table is not tilted. If I put the square flat on the cast part of the table from left to right the square will rock quite a bit. If I held it down on one or the other side the gap on the opposite side will appear alarmingly large. I can put two .018 feeler gauges on the left and right ends of the cast table top and lay the carpenters square over it and it will be touching the edge of the insert cut out. This hump runs from front to rear but is much worse near the center part of the insert cutout. I think that at the worse the high spot is more than .018 but I did not want to take time to gauge every possible angle to see exactly how the hump was configured and how much it might be. I know my measurements are not machinist accurate but I think .018 is on the conservative side. I know that a carpenters square is not a super precision tool but should suffice in this instance. But I am also well known for being wrong.
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post #4 of 29 Old 09-22-2013, 07:20 PM
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You didn't mention how it cuts....the proof is in the pudding. If it cuts well, you're good .....it'd take a fairly gross deviation for it to become a problem. Your wood can move more than 1/64" on a day to day basis. Why file a claim for something that might not be defective?

Last edited by knotscott; 09-22-2013 at 07:22 PM.
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post #5 of 29 Old 09-22-2013, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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So far it cuts ok for rough carpentry. I haven't used it a lot and am not much of a woodworker so it's hard to determine how this will affect my projects. I am gonna try and do more difficult projects. I am also concerned about making a crosscut sled and having it slide without binding and or rocking. When I see how much the table is humped it looks like I may have problems with a sled.
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post #6 of 29 Old 09-22-2013, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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I should also mention that my previous TS was a beat up old 8" Makita. So when I first used this new saw I was in heaven. But I have pretty much nothing else to compare it to.
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post #7 of 29 Old 09-23-2013, 08:00 AM
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a few pics demonstrating the extent of the issue would be a great help in suggesting solutions/workarounds.

there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.
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post #8 of 29 Old 09-23-2013, 08:06 AM
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I bought a R4512 a couple of weeks ago and took it back. The right side was flat, but the left needed something the thickness of 30 lb roofing felt on it to be flat to the right side. The table also had a good deal of surface rust and scratches you could feel with your fingernail. I formed the opinion that quality control was not important to Rigid, and I returned it for a full refund.
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post #9 of 29 Old 09-23-2013, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knotscott View Post
You didn't mention how it cuts....the proof is in the pudding. If it cuts well, you're good .....it'd take a fairly gross deviation for it to become a problem. Your wood can move more than 1/64" on a day to day basis. Why file a claim for something that might not be defective?

I think that you are probably very correct. 1/64" is well within any accuracy that we should be shooting for in woodworking.

The only problem may come about if there is any rocking of the wood occurring. That could cause a multiplying effect to any errors.

More detail is needed on the problem.

George
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post #10 of 29 Old 09-24-2013, 01:37 PM
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Woodworking and metal working do not mix, sawdust gets into metal working tools and in combination with oil gums them up.

Feeler gauges and micrometers, metal working tools, cause problems in a woodworking shop that without them you would not be aware of.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #11 of 29 Old 09-24-2013, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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R4512 table saw warped-image.jpg

To illustrate the hump I ran the square along one side of the table. The block of wood is there to hold up the square. That gap under the right side of the square measures greater than .032. I removed the insert. When I look at it like this I am concerned that it may be an uphill battle when I use a crosscut sled. Also don't know how it will affect other cuts. It's kinda hard to see the severity of the hump in this picture but it's the best I could do at this time.
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post #12 of 29 Old 09-24-2013, 08:19 PM
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If you really think it'll be a problem, you can make the sled so that only the sled rails contact the saw surface via the miter slots, and the sled body would ride very slightly above the table.

I still think you should verify with some test cuts to see if the saw really has a problem or not....you can measure the saw top surface until the cows come home, but the test cuts will let you know pretty quickly. I'd bet you really don't have an issue for woodworking tolerances.

Last edited by knotscott; 09-25-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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post #13 of 29 Old 09-24-2013, 11:55 PM
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if the stamped steel wings re removed so only the saw table is checked by the framing square, is the 3/43" gap still there?

there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.
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post #14 of 29 Old 09-25-2013, 12:27 AM
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blacknbluedog

After looking at your picture. I'd say your top is too far out. You will really notice it when you tilt and cut angles. I had a crapsman that was warped but I straightened as there was no warrantee. I'd say it warped in the manufacturing process and I'd take it back.

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post #15 of 29 Old 09-25-2013, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
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I am not taking into account the steel wings. I had plans of replacing it with something like birch ply anyway. I have no problem with the wings being off. My concern is with the cast table. I placed the left end of the square on the edge of the cast table. For what I have used it for so far the saw works fine. But if I start making an out feed table and buying other accessories I will then be married to this saw. I don't want to spend a lot of time and money and then find the saw is making my woodworking more difficult. I want any screwups to be my fault. Which they probably will be anyway.
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post #16 of 29 Old 09-25-2013, 06:54 AM
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Just make sure your square is absolutely straight. If cast iron is not properly stress relieved, this happens from time to time. It's been a long time, but Grizzly use to have a surface grinder set up specifically to handle warrantee issues such as this, by resurfacing the top. Good luck with Rigid, but any large machine shop will be able to do this for you.

Pure mathematics is, in it's way, the poetry of logical ideas. - Albert Einstein.
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post #17 of 29 Old 09-25-2013, 03:00 PM
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Warranty repair.

If your straight edge is really straight, that's a casting issue.

*Edit: Just realized Willem said the same thing. Sorry for the redundancy
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post #18 of 29 Old 09-25-2013, 03:37 PM
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If it is the table that is warped (and not the wings or your straight edge giving you mis-info) I would warranty it with Ridgid. I doubt it will impact your cuts as Scott said, but you will always see it and it will always be aware of it. Get it resolved so you won't let that constantly pester you. It's a great saw.
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post #19 of 29 Old 09-25-2013, 04:41 PM
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back when...

I recall reading after the castings were made they would keep then around awhile and let them season before they machined them. I don't if this is the current process any longer, but it would make sense. Could be production need to go faster than they are willing to wait., these days...?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #20 of 29 Old 09-25-2013, 10:01 PM
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I'd say there are many out there like this and people don't know it.

Al

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