Old Craftsman Table Saw Has Wobble - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-21-2013, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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Old Craftsman Table Saw Has Wobble

Hi everyone,

I'm just getting started with woodworking and I happened to find a table saw that a guy wanted out of his garage so he gave it to me for free. He said it worked fine the last time he used it but that was about 15 years ago and it's been kicked around in his garage since.

I put a blade on it and turned it by hand to see if the arbor was still straight and I noticed a little wobble in the blade. I was using a 5/8 arbor blade since I don't have any of the smaller arbor blades. You can see in the 2nd and 3rd pictures that there is something on the arbor that doesn't seem to let the blade sit flat/flush. Is this supposed to be there? I put the blade right up against this and then put on the washer and nut. Am I missing a piece?

I also noticed a little wobble in the arm that supports the arbor shaft as you can see in the last picture. The wobble is in the direction of the arrows.

So my questions: are these things that can be fixed to make the saw safe and is it worth the time/effort/money to do so? I'm not married to the saw but if it's a relatively simple fix, I'm all for it. I just want to make sure it safe! Otherwise, I'll start scanning Craigslist for a used table saw.

Thanks for your help
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post #2 of 18 Old 01-21-2013, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa's old tools View Post
Hi everyone,

I'm just getting started with woodworking and I happened to find a table saw that a guy wanted out of his garage so he gave it to me for free. He said it worked fine the last time he used it but that was about 15 years ago and it's been kicked around in his garage since.

I put a blade on it and turned it by hand to see if the arbor was still straight and I noticed a little wobble in the blade. I was using a 5/8 arbor blade since I don't have any of the smaller arbor blades. You can see in the 2nd and 3rd pictures that there is something on the arbor that doesn't seem to let the blade sit flat/flush. Is this supposed to be there? I put the blade right up against this and then put on the washer and nut. Am I missing a piece?


first thing i'd do is get a copy of the OM from either sears' website or here:

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex...x?id=222&tab=3

there should be a model number somewhere on the cabinet that's structured with 3 numbers, then a period, then either 5 or 6 more numbers. the first 3 numbers before the period tell you who manufactured the unit for sears.


I also noticed a little wobble in the arm that supports the arbor shaft as you can see in the last picture. The wobble is in the direction of the arrows.

the arbor and pulley should rotate true, with no wobble or side to side movement.

So my questions: are these things that can be fixed to make the saw safe and is it worth the time/effort/money to do so? I'm not married to the saw but if it's a relatively simple fix, I'm all for it. I just want to make sure it safe! Otherwise, I'll start scanning Craigslist for a used table saw.

Thanks for your help
i'd figure out what that piece of metal on the arbor shaft is for or if it even belongs there. then i'd go from there.

there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.
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post #3 of 18 Old 01-21-2013, 02:55 PM
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That piece of diamond shaped metal does not belong there! Take it off and throw it away, It's what is causing the wobble. Older Skil worm drive saws had a diamond shaped arbor right where the blade sits and alot of blades came with that adapter so you could use it on a round arbor. If you still get wobble could be a bent arbor but I think it will work fine. Some old C'mans had a 1/2" arbor. If that is the case you can get an adapter to reduce the 5/8" hole to 1/2" from a saw sharpening shop.
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...fr=yfp-t-701-1

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post #4 of 18 Old 01-21-2013, 03:00 PM
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agreed

+ 1 with Joe. That's a blade adaptor. Get it off there and measure the arbor size. There are still some 1/2" bore blades available usually for circular saws. You can reduce down from 5/8" if necessary just get a snug fitting adaptor that fits the blade and the arbor without play.
http://www.amazon.com/Trend-PSB-15024TC-Professional-6-Inch/dp/B0041O5GE6
You are missing the arbor flange washer which keeps the blade from rubbing on the arbor housing and that's why that triangle adaptor was there. There are plenty of 1/2 bore washers, but you need one that's made for a table saw with a taper or bevel to bear against the bearing race. If all else fails get a 1/2" machinist washer witha small outside diameter and then back it up witgh a larger 1/2" bore washer. Don't run it that way! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sears-Crafts...item4d08b5ca04

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

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post #5 of 18 Old 01-21-2013, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeb41 View Post
T Some old C'mans had a 1/2" arbor. If that is the case you can get an adapter from a saw sharpening shop.
I have to use a 1/2 x 5/8 bushing because of a half inch diameter shaft on my Craftsman. 1/2 x 5/8 nylon / plastic bushing material can be purchased and cut to length ( the thickness of the saw blank + 0.010" if you like ) with a coping saw or any other method that makes you happy.

Last edited by SeniorSitizen; 01-21-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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post #6 of 18 Old 01-21-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandburRanch View Post
I have to use a 1/2 x 5/8 bushing because of a half inch diameter shaft on my Craftsman. 1/2 x 5/8 nylon / plastic bushing material can be purchased and cut to length ( the thickness of the saw blank + 0.010" if you like ) with a coping saw or any other method that makes you happy.
That rings a bell, I think I also made them from 1/2" copper tubing.

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post #7 of 18 Old 01-21-2013, 07:30 PM
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+1 with the Skill saw insert. Didn't your saw have a nut and washer on it? The blade washer only comes in contact with the blade on its outside perimeter. Old blade used to come with an insert so it could be used on 1/2 and 5/8-inch arbors. This insert used to have like a knurled edge so it could be pressed in the blade and left there.

Those old saws were built very well so it may be worth getting the right stuff to get it working correctly.
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post #8 of 18 Old 01-22-2013, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips, I looked up the manual last night on the vintage tools website. The model # is 103.24241, it's a King-Seeley. The arbor is 1/2" as most of you mentioned. I figured I would pick up a bushing but I wanted to make sure I could get a blade on there before investing anything into it. I'll try and grind that diamond off to get a flat surface. I do have the washer and nut but with that diamond on there, the blade just wouldn't sit flush.

Any ideas about the arbor mount arm moving side to side? It moves slightly (maybe 1/8") when I wiggle it with my hand, I didn't notice it moving while turning the pulley though. Perhaps that's regular play?

Also, the saw didn't come with a motor mount so I was going to bolt it to a table. Does that sound alright or does it have to be on a hinge so it hangs on the belt?

Thanks again for your help.
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post #9 of 18 Old 01-22-2013, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa's old tools View Post
T
Also, the saw didn't come with a motor mount so I was going to bolt it to a table. Does that sound alright or does it have to be on a hinge so it hangs on the belt?

Thanks again for your help.
what does the OM show as a motor mounting arrangement? most of those "motor hanging out the back" contractor saws need for their motors to pivot in in some way to facilitate elevating and lowering the blade.

there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.
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post #10 of 18 Old 01-22-2013, 03:41 PM
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There shouldn't be any side to side play.
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post #11 of 18 Old 02-08-2013, 10:42 AM
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Setting motor pivot advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toolguy1000 View Post
what does the OM show as a motor mounting arrangement? most of those "motor hanging out the back" contractor saws need for their motors to pivot in in some way to facilitate elevating and lowering the blade.
I've got one of those old (Sears) contractor saw with the motor hanging out the back and can't seem to get the pivot set properly. The belt is either too tight or too loose. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips?

I'd sure like to hear from someone who has the same saw - model number 113.299142 (saw only number). I wonder what my chances of that happening are.
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post #12 of 18 Old 02-08-2013, 11:19 AM
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It's the blade elevation control

I can't remember at which point the belt becomes the tightest, fully up or fully lower, but find that out. It should mean the motor is pivoted up closest to the rear of the table. Adjust the motor mount on the sliding rods so the belt is not "super" tight, just tight. Then lower the blade and see if it gets sloppy at the full lower position, if so..... You have the wrong size belt. If I remember it takes either a 4L42 or 4L43 belt. My saw was a 1960's version.
Theoretically you want the belt the tightest at fully up because that's when you need the maximum power from the motor.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 02-09-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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post #13 of 18 Old 02-09-2013, 11:14 AM
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Hi,

I appreciate your response and suggestions. I'm still playing with this saw and will check the belt size again, re-read the instructions and try a few more times.

Thanks for the advice.
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post #14 of 18 Old 01-18-2014, 09:08 AM
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I pm'd you. I have the same saw. When I have time I will post the fix but if you want call me in mean time I can tell you the fix. Very simple
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post #15 of 18 Old 01-19-2014, 08:09 AM
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There is end play ( thrust ) in the shaft because the nut on the sheave end was never adjusted correctly. Remove the set screw, adjust the nut and put the set screw back ( I prefer a new screw ) with a drop of thread locker on the threads.

The bearings are sealed and are a push fit with an internal sleeve spacer that resides between the inner races of the two bearings. When the nut is tightened the sleeve is retained between the inner bearing races with "0" movement and the only axial thrust will be what is built into the bearings. You'll find the arbor and pulley are designed to contact the two bearing inner races.

Just get the diamond off and install a 8" x 5/8" blade using a nylon bushing. There is no washer on the inside. The arbor is built to match the external washer ridge.

To install the blade with a bushing, reverse the external washer and push the blade and bushing onto the shaft as an assembly. Remove the washer and turn it back around as designed for operation.
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post #16 of 18 Old 01-19-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoodworker View Post
I've got one of those old (Sears) contractor saw with the motor hanging out the back and can't seem to get the pivot set properly. The belt is either too tight or too loose. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips?

I'd sure like to hear from someone who has the same saw - model number 113.299142 (saw only number). I wonder what my chances of that happening are.
I had that problem with my powrkraft. Best I could do was to leave some slop in my mounting bracket,seems to work well for me. It will be tighter and looser as the blade goes up and down. A link belt may help even more but I'm cheap.
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post #17 of 18 Old 01-20-2014, 08:55 AM
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If I understood the original question correctly, the whole arm moves... If this is correct, the large screw on each side at the pivot are tapered on the end. The nut at the outside of it is a jam nut. If you loosen the jam nut slightly then hold is as you slowly adjust the set screw to take out the play, just do not make it tight. It will make raising and lowering the blade difficult and wear the arm. If you can loosen one side enough to get a little grease into each side, that would be ideal as this saw is over 60 years old an this point.

Once you have the play adjusted out, hold the screw while tightening the jam nut. Double check your play and free movement of the arm at this point as it will tend to get tighter, Readjust as necessary.

You should be all set at this point.
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post #18 of 18 Old 01-20-2014, 10:13 AM
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I appreciate your help, littlegti84, and thank you very much for your response. I should have done an update a while ago when I gave up on this saw, gave it away, and purchased a new one. I simply didn't have the patience to continue playing with it any longer.
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