Odd plug on table saw - Page 4 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #61 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 09:58 PM
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So, a well known electrical engineer tells you that you are mistaken, and you want to continue arguing that your sources are reliable? Got it. You can lead a horse to water, but I stopped trying to force them to learn a long time ago. But you would be well served to pay attention and do some additional research as needed.
The problem with your argument is what my guy told me was tried and proven. It's difficult to buy a different story.
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post #62 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 10:05 PM
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The problem with your argument is what my guy told me was tried and proven. It's difficult to buy a different story.
Yeah, and my mom told me if I didn't stop I'd go blind....

But that's not what you said your friend told you, and it certainly wasn't proven. But c'est la vie. A wise person would continue learning. I can't fix that.
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post #63 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 10:10 PM
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The ground crew mechanic who works on the plane, can't fly it. The computer wizard at the Best Buy can remove your virus, but can't write programming code. The auto mechanic who replaces the broken parts at the dealership can't fix/repair/rebuild them. The carpenter/house framer who builds the home can't design one.

A technician is not an engineer. Electrical theory is more complex than most can appreciate. I had a few structural engineering classes in college and when it came to calculus and differential equations a whole lot was over my head, but I squeaked by with a new appreciation for engineers. :smile3:
In this case motors are brought to this guy on a daily basis. He has to diagnose what is ailing the motors and determine a fix. It's inconceivable he could do this work without knowing what makes the armature go round and round. I have no doubt there is nothing about electric motors this guy doesn't know. Anyway when it comes to electrical theory it's difficult to find two people on the same page.
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post #64 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 10:15 PM
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Explain to me again what you think is happening inside of a dual voltage motor. I'd be happy to discuss what is correct or incorrect with you.
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post #65 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 10:21 PM
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I know what you mean

Quote:
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In this case motors are brought to this guy on a daily basis. He has to diagnose what is ailing the motors and determine a fix. It's inconceivable he could do this work without knowing what makes the armature go round and round. I have no doubt there is nothing about electric motors this guy doesn't know. Anyway when it comes to electrical theory it's difficult to find two people on the same page.
I had to take my lathe motor to a shop that was highly recommended by another motor shop and there were motors from floor to ceiling and on every bench top. These guys knew all about motors I'm sure and I didn't question their expertise. My motor was wired correctly and ran great for $40.00.

What I'm saying is that above that level of expertise is the "theory" and the difference is between book smart vs street smart. Some times it doesn't make any difference, other times it does. And the best is a combination of both skills.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #66 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
Explain to me again what you think is happening inside of a dual voltage motor. I'd be happy to discuss what is correct or incorrect with you.
It's been explained to him a dozen times, but he refuses to believe it from anyone here, only the "motor god" that worked at the shop has any creds. You will be ridiculed by Steve and Frank as a paper pusher, they don't believe that formulas correlate to this in any way.
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post #67 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 10:35 PM
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Woodnthings, I started writing this off-line before you made your posting, but since you just used the word, I felt I better point that out.

This is just food for thought.

People use the word "theory" to describe any topic which they donít personally understand, with the implied assumption that if they don't understand it, then no one else could possibly understand it either. Something isn't "theoretical" just because one person or group of people don't understand it.

Motors fall well within the known group. They are well known and well defined. There is no "unknown theory" behind them. Even the current and voltage relationships within a motor are precisely modeled mathematically, and the only reason why some people assume it is just "theory" is that they don't know the non-simplified versions of those equations. Those are the equations that contain variables that most people have never heard of. But those variables are well known to the engineers that design the motors.
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post #68 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 10:44 PM
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Actually, among educated people, the words "theory" and "theoretical" both have a specific, defined meaning. They are words used in science, to distinguish several modes of thought from other modes.

Until I read your post, I thought electricity fell into the realm of science.
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"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.

Last edited by Jammersix; 08-15-2016 at 10:46 PM.
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post #69 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 11:16 PM
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Rick, sorry for any confusion

What I was getting at was "how a motor works" is different than "why it works" A technician may know all about how it works, but may not know why in some cases .... I donno?

I would suggest anyone who doubts your credentials to go to your website and read the articles as I have done. I have known about you for years, having come across the site when researching static and explosions in shop dust collectors, and respect your opinions.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #70 of 80 Old 08-15-2016, 11:22 PM
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Oh, man, is this that guy who was selling see-through cyclones like they were something new?

"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.
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post #71 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 03:48 AM
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Nope

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Oh, man, is this that guy who was selling see-through cyclones like they were something new?

That would be Bill Pentz. Clear Vue Cyclones:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyc...clone_plan.cfm

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 08-16-2016 at 03:55 AM.
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post #72 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 04:32 AM
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Ah, that's him. So this other guy is new?

"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.
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post #73 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 04:39 AM
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Nope

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Ah, that's him. So this other guy is new?

Only "new" to you and to this forum. He's been around for years. He does amazing work... the "expanding round
table" on his site. You did check out the link I posted....?

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #74 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
Woodnthings, I started writing this off-line before you made your posting, but since you just used the word, I felt I better point that out.

This is just food for thought.

People use the word "theory" to describe any topic which they donít personally understand, with the implied assumption that if they don't understand it, then no one else could possibly understand it either. Something isn't "theoretical" just because one person or group of people don't understand it.

Motors fall well within the known group. They are well known and well defined. There is no "unknown theory" behind them. Even the current and voltage relationships within a motor are precisely modeled mathematically, and the only reason why some people assume it is just "theory" is that they don't know the non-simplified versions of those equations. Those are the equations that contain variables that most people have never heard of. But those variables are well known to the engineers that design the motors.
Well, you are certainly correct.

Electric are long past the "theory" stage. Every aspect of how they operate has been well known for many, many years.

Many people use the word "theory" incorrectly. It is commonly used in place of "principle." ie. Please tell me the theory/principle of of electric motor operation.

George
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post #75 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 11:41 AM
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It's been explained to him a dozen times, but he refuses to believe it from anyone here, only the "motor god" that worked at the shop has any creds. You will be ridiculed by Steve and Frank as a paper pusher, they don't believe that formulas correlate to this in any way.
The problem with your formulas is they all start with "if", in the real world these situations begin with "when".

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #76 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 12:02 PM
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In theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

In reality, there is a world of difference between the two.
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"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.
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post #77 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 12:19 PM
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So then....

In reality, this is a theoretical discussion.


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In theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

In reality, there is a world of difference between the two.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #78 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
In reality, this is a theoretical discussion.
Well, theoretically, anyway.

"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.
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post #79 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 12:50 PM
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the great thing about the internet is that there is a large variety of folks participating, every color of the rainbow. of course, everyone will not agree with everything said.


say your piece, and move on!
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post #80 of 80 Old 08-16-2016, 08:56 PM
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Or stick around.

"When I have your wounded." -- Major Charles L. Kelley, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to recognize that an LZ was too hot, moments before before being killed by a single shot, July 1, 1964.
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