NOS Craftsman 113 table saw. Keep or sell - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 03-18-2019, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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NOS Craftsman 113 table saw. Keep or sell

Hey guys.



My neighbor just gave me a unused, half assembled Craftsman 113.298844 table saw. So I think I can call that as near to NOS as you can get.



It's been sitting in his shed since 1997. He started assembling it while doing a basement remodel. At some point he was using a miter saw and cut the end of his thumb off. So ended his wood working.



It's buried in his shed so I couldn't get a good look. But I can tell it's brand new. Hell the motor has never been put on. It has the 3hp 120/240 motor.



I know I can do all the upgrades and make this a decent saw. It would more than meet my needs. But all the info I'm finding is old. Is upgrading this one still the way to go vs getting something newer. May used even.



My son seems to think I can sell this for enough to get some thing better. But I don't agree. What could I get for it. $300-$400 maybe?


I'd just assume upgrade this one. Heck. I may not even do that.



I know the first thing guys do is upgrade the fence. I'm not sure if this is the real bad one. It is a steel fence. But it has the geared micro adjust I guess you call it. Is this fence one that needs replaced?



I'm open for suggestions on keep or sell. And if I keep it what upgrades are guys doing these days.



I can't bring it home until he cleans his shed and I clean my basement. But I did grab the motor, and squeezed my phone in beside it for a pic,,,lol.
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post #2 of 25 Old 03-18-2019, 11:03 PM
where's my table saw?
 
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Nice score, keep it.

You won't get that much for it and you will make more with it that you think. If it has the geared fence, the same as I had on my older Craftsman 100, that's not a bad fence. You pull out the gear knob for gross movements then push it in for fine tuning. The issue was the push down lock acted on both the front and rear of the table edges unlike the newer fences which only lock on a rail on the front. If you can get it working accurately you will like it.



That's a rare find, NOS for sure. If you do set it all up and find out you hate it, THEN you can sell it as almost never used. When the buyer says "Why are you selling it?" make up something believable or put a huge bandage around your thumb....?
Sleeper likes this.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #3 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 12:57 PM
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If you need a table saw, set it up and use it. If you think something needs an upgrade then evaluate it based on cost. I am reasonably sure that has the angle iron rails and whatever they call that fence. That was prior to the 24/24 and align-a-rip fences. I had a 113.298843 here, still have the manual. The 44 model must have some subtle differences. It may have the long rails and extra extensions (3 or 4). Surely unique. I would be interested in knowing how many extensions came with it.
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post #4 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 02:35 PM
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from the looks of the pulley and the ends motor mount rods and the stains on the paperwork, I'd anticipate a lot of rust all over.
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post #5 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Well I brought it home. I actually put it in the back of my lawn mower trailer and brought it from across the street.,,,lol. Wished I would have thought to take a pic of it in the trailer.


So all though it's not like new, it's not as bad as some of the stuff you could find. I think I better take it all the way down and clean it up and make sure it's put together right. Can you guys watch the video and confirm this is a crappy fence that I should replace. Thanks.


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post #6 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 07:21 PM
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Hi, Quick Cal!

Just read your post on the free Craftsman Table Saw. What a coincidence. I just purchased the '94 Version of this same saw along with several other pieces of equip. I am putting together a new shop in my new get-away place in No. California. I was lucky enough to find the 3HP version with a Biesemeyer(Delta) upgraded fence. From the research I did before my purchase, I did learn that the Delta fence is one of the better upgrades for this Craftsman.

Have you started up the motor yet? If not, you might want to very closely inspect the motor mounting bracket. I did some research and apparently on some of the 3-HP models(not exactly sure which years but definitely 80s - 90s) the motor mounting bracket used by Craftsman was not quite up to the task! Specifically the mount was bending too easily(probably during belt tensioning/adjusting) which occasionally led to the motor shaft getting un-parallel to the blade arbor shaft, and THAT led to the two pulleys getting out of alignment. The poor alignment syndrome apparently led some users with loose/poor condition pulleys to having the motor pulley come flying off of the motor shaft . OOPS! ONLY reason I mention this is that your specific circumstance (no motor yet mounted, I think?) MAY be the perfect opportunity for you to check this out and maybe re-evaluate things, i.e., Do you STILL want to assemble this sucker and spend money upgrading OR (and I have NO idea how much work is required to replace the motor mount) in your case, IF the inside of the unused motor has issues, do you even want to risk chasing good money after bad? I PROMISE, I'm NOT trying to rain on your parade of apparent good fortune in being given a basically unused 20 year-old 3HP table saw. Just trying to save you some potential aggravation, some of which I, too, may be facing!
That said, If you do go forward with the final assembly and upgrade. Maybe we can help each other with the info learned.
Any way, GOOD LUCK with the rust removal and final re-assembly! (Naval Jelly & lots of 00/000 steel wool maybe? )

I'll watch the forum for your progress if you decide to share it!

best, Stan ("Brookeville")
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post #7 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 07:34 PM
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,Just a heads up on those motors, they are NOT 3HP,probaly lucky if they are 1 HP.
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post #8 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 07:38 PM
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rusty bottom .....

The rust only on the underneath portion of the table and trunnion motor mout tells me that the tio was somehow protected with Boeshield or other substance. A complete tear down will be a good idea and not all that complicated except ..... realigning the trunnion back to being parallel to the miter slots. You do have the advantage of being able to sit the saw on it's back end and thereby access both sides of the top to measure as well as tighten and pry at the assembly for alignment, a BIG advantage!


I like what I see so far and think you'll be happy with the saw. Just remember to pull out the micro adjustment knob BEFORE sliding the fence. Wire up the motor to a switch and plug before you mount it to test it first. White wires do not go to the switch for a 120 operation, only the black ones...... line voltage from the wall comes in, switched power goes out to the motor.



The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #9 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookeville View Post
Hi, Quick Cal!

Just read your post on the free Craftsman Table Saw. What a coincidence. I just purchased the '94 Version of this same saw along with several other pieces of equip. I am putting together a new shop in my new get-away place in No. California. I was lucky enough to find the 3HP version with a Biesemeyer(Delta) upgraded fence. From the research I did before my purchase, I did learn that the Delta fence is one of the better upgrades for this Craftsman.

Have you started up the motor yet? If not, you might want to very closely inspect the motor mounting bracket. I did some research and apparently on some of the 3-HP models(not exactly sure which years but definitely 80s - 90s) the motor mounting bracket used by Craftsman was not quite up to the task! Specifically the mount was bending too easily(probably during belt tensioning/adjusting) which occasionally led to the motor shaft getting un-parallel to the blade arbor shaft, and THAT led to the two pulleys getting out of alignment. The poor alignment syndrome apparently led some users with loose/poor condition pulleys to having the motor pulley come flying off of the motor shaft . OOPS! ONLY reason I mention this is that your specific circumstance (no motor yet mounted, I think?) MAY be the perfect opportunity for you to check this out and maybe re-evaluate things, i.e., Do you STILL want to assemble this sucker and spend money upgrading OR (and I have NO idea how much work is required to replace the motor mount) in your case, IF the inside of the unused motor has issues, do you even want to risk chasing good money after bad? I PROMISE, I'm NOT trying to rain on your parade of apparent good fortune in being given a basically unused 20 year-old 3HP table saw. Just trying to save you some potential aggravation, some of which I, too, may be facing!
That said, If you do go forward with the final assembly and upgrade. Maybe we can help each other with the info learned.
Any way, GOOD LUCK with the rust removal and final re-assembly! (Naval Jelly & lots of 00/000 steel wool maybe? )

I'll watch the forum for your progress if you decide to share it!

best, Stan ("Brookeville")



Nothing put together yet. Thanks for the heads up on the motor mount. How do I tell if it has an issue?
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post #10 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canarywood1 View Post
,Just a heads up on those motors, they are NOT 3HP,probaly lucky if they are 1 HP.

Don't know if I can believe the ebay seller. But he had the same motor for sale saying it was 1.5/3 hp.


Isn't there some formula you can use and times the amps by something,,,lol
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post #11 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
The rust only on the underneath portion of the table and trunnion motor mout tells me that the tio was somehow protected with Boeshield or other substance. A complete tear down will be a good idea and not all that complicated except ..... realigning the trunnion back to being parallel to the miter slots. You do have the advantage of being able to sit the saw on it's back end and thereby access both sides of the top to measure as well as tighten and pry at the assembly for alignment, a BIG advantage!


I like what I see so far and think you'll be happy with the saw. Just remember to pull out the micro adjustment knob BEFORE sliding the fence. Wire up the motor to a switch and plug before you mount it to test it first. White wires do not go to the switch for a 120 operation, only the black ones...... line voltage from the wall comes in, switched power goes out to the motor.



There doesn't appear to be any kind of chemical on the top. But I guess after 22 years it could have wore off,,,lol. But he did have towels on the top.



As far as aligning goes. Is that where the PALS kit would come in. I'm on a really tight budget but I may spring for that if it's really needed.



The micro adjust knob doesn't seem to be working right. I have to go look because I don't think I need to pull it out to move the fence freely. I think I have to pull it out to get it to turn. I gotta go see,,,lol.
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post #12 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 08:10 PM
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craftsman table saws are about the most common table saw on this forum. i bought mine new in 1982 and have used it as is since. are there better saws out there? of course there are. but yours is free and works fine.
as for 3 hp? craftsman has used the same basic 1 hp motor on their table saws for years. a true 3 hp, 120 volt motor would draw 34 amps. your saw probably has a 1 hp, 120 volt motor and draws right at 16 amps. same as mine and everyone else's.
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post #13 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Does anyone know the formula to figure the hp?


You can look at the data tag in my first post.
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post #14 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 09:47 PM
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Yes

1 HP is equal to 746 watts:
https://www.google.com/search?client...+watts+us+1+HP


Watts is equal to the VOLTs X the AMPs


So, 120 VOLTs X 8 AMPs equals 960 WATTS
then 240 VOLTs X 4 AMPs equals 960 WATTS


A 120 VOLT circuit with a 20 AMP breaker will carry 2400 WATTS.


A "3 HP" electric motor can not run on a 120 V 20 Amp circuit. That rating is bogus. Even a 2 HP motor will strain on a 20 AMP circuit.
Then is there is difference between starting AMPs and running AMPs.
If you want to get a true reading of the power, get a Kill a Watt meter:
https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Elec.../dp/B00009MDBU

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 03-19-2019 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Corrected for typo, first character (!)
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post #15 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
! HP is equal to 746 watts:
https://www.google.com/search?client...+watts+us+1+HP


Watts is equal to the VOLTs X the AMPs


So, 120 VOLTs X 8 AMPs equals 960 WATTS
then 240 VOLTs X 4 AMPs equals 960 WATTS


A 120 VOLT circuit with a 20 AMP breaker will carry 2400 WATTS.


A "3 HP" electric motor can not run on a 120 V 20 Amp circuit. That rating is bogus. Even a 2 HP motor will strain on a 20 AMP circuit.
Then is there is difference between starting AMPs and running AMPs.
If you want to get a true reading of the power, get a Kill a Watt meter:
https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Elec.../dp/B00009MDBU

Is your first key stroke supposed to be a 1 and not an exclamation point,,,lol.


The data tag reads:


V=120/240
A= 13/6.5


What does this tell us,,,lol
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post #16 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 10:17 PM
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I fixed the typo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Cal View Post
Is your first key stroke supposed to be a 1 and not an exclamation point,,,lol.


The data tag reads:


V=120/240
A= 13/6.5


What does this tell us,,,lol

It means that on 120 V it will draw 13 amps and on 240, half of that.

The WATTS remains the same at 1560 watts.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #17 of 25 Old 03-19-2019, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
It means that on 120 V it will draw 13 amps and on 240, half of that.

The WATTS remains the same at 1560 watts.

So is 1560 =2.09hp?
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post #18 of 25 Old 03-20-2019, 01:28 AM
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yep, on a good day ...

1560 divided by 746 = 2.09



Doesn't that run a tingle up your leg? OR make your hair stand on end? That's shear raw power!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #19 of 25 Old 03-20-2019, 02:54 AM
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Worth mentioning, in the whole "watts to horsepower" conversion conversation, the nameplate on a motor will tell you how much power it consumes, not how much it puts out. In a perfect world, an electric motor would require 6.21 amps at 120 volts AC to put out 1hp (746 watts). Sadly, we do not live in a perfect world, and things like friction and resistance exist, so in reality a motor that puts out 1hp worth of power will draw more power than that in electricity.

A good rule of thumb ive found for electric motors is 1hp = 10 amps of current at 120v. Theres a bit of swing in either directions, ive seen 1hp motors with 8-11 amps listed on the nameplate, but again, its a rule of thumb and not an ironclad rule. Itll get you close enough for woodworkings sake

I need cheaper hobby
etsy.com/shop/projectepicfail
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post #20 of 25 Old 03-20-2019, 07:38 AM
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I have a similar saw. Added PALS and the alignment is very accurate. Upgraded the pulleys. The Delta T2/T3 fences are a good not too expensive upgrade (might have to re-drill the holes in the Delta rails to match the Craftsman's holes). Also add a link belt.
These are good saws. Mine has a 1 hp motor and with a good blade will rip 8/4 red Oak with no problem.

Last edited by JIMMIEM; 03-20-2019 at 08:05 AM. Reason: add info
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